The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Suspension inspection for dummies

Now that I have my 51 3100 moving under its own power for the first time since I’ve owned it, and the first time in some 40 years....starting to think about what I might take to make it actually road worthy and license-able. Missouri has safety inspections so I have to put some effort into this.

I’m relatively familiar with various checks for front end play and what not.

But first thing I want to address is getting the old girl at least sitting level. Now that we have equal pressure in all tires and it’s positioned pointing “into” the garage....it definitely sits a bit low on the passenger side. I took measurements at all the wheel wells the other day but didn’t write them down. I think the high corner is the driver front. Both passenger sides are 1” to 1.5” low in comparison to the other side of the same axle.

Where do I need to go look first to diagnose this? See if there’s a broken leaf spring? Can shackles or shocks cause such a symptom? In all my time under the truck, nothing obvious has grabbed my attention. All the body mounting points look ok, so I think this is a suspension thing.

first. measure to the frame not the fenders / wells. those could be off by cab mounts screw holes or other issues.
most likely its springs and or shocks. take shocks loose and do measurements. that will determine springs. shackles tend not to play a role unless they are broke. if springs check out shocks next. if those are good then well check your frame itself. or check frame first and work down.

as to your inspection. Get it plated with historical plate and you can be exempt in MO. Otherwise take a printout of the official dmv current inspection list with details. Because most likely your going have to point out that it was made before his DAD was even born and your year model does not require seat belts. or emissions or even inside and outside mirrors. "But the computer says" will be his response lol.

The guy that does my inspection stuff has his head on pretty straight. That part should be fine, should I choose to go that route.

The adventure is always at the license office. Never know what you will get into there.

JW, I have at least six vehicles with historic plates. No inspection required. Just show the title and proof of insurance. Liability is all you need.
Unless you get custom plates, it's a one time deal and your historic plates are good as long as you own the vehicle.
You are supposed to keep a log book and you get 1000 miles a year for personal use.
Anything over that is free to take to shows, parades or the the repair shop. I go to the Truman building in Jefferson city to get the plates.
I also never kept a logbook and have never been asked to show one.
Lets say you want to drive it to the Southern Stovebolt Jamboree in July, you get a free pass to put that mileage down for a show.

But! Make sure it is safe to drive first!

Talk to your local DMV to see where you need to go to get the tags.
Let me know if you need help getting the plates.
Don

Hey, Don...it’s been a while. Hope all is well.

Good info. I thought it was 1000 miles total, including to and from the shows. So if the show mileage is exempt that’s even better.

It’ll definitely have to be made safe before venturing anywhere but my lane. The MO inspection process is increasingly a pain, even on modern vehicles, so historical might be the way to go.

Don, that sounds like a good reason to get a friend to organize a private "show" somewhere every weekend, with a couple of other bolters in attendance!

Jerry

Back to the actual suspension topic. Though the license diversion was good....

So you’re saying remove shocks and see if it sits more level-er? And if it doesn’t it’s the springs, if it does it’s the shocks.

I’d be “shocked” if the shocks are any good, even if they aren’t the main problem. They look pretty rough.

I would just go ahead and pull the shocks because they look rough. But I also understand you have a few young in's, so finances may be a little tight.
Then do the frame measuring on a flat concrete pad. You could also measure from the frame to the axle on each side.

Back off topic, how is your friend doing with that 57 2-Ton I hauled to central Illinois a couple year ago?
He got a good buy on that one.

Don

If you don't have a level pad to work on, borrow someones flat bed trailer. You can level the trailer bed with jacks pretty easy. Once on level ground, measure frame to floor in all four corners. It's likely the springs and bushings are worn out along with cab mounts. Add up all the wear and you can have a pretty good lean.

I went through a mess getting my truck licensed in Missouri due to title problem. My brother in-law purchased the truck in the early '70s and never transferred his name to the title, so when I bought it in 1999,the original owner had passed away and the title was no longer valid. Just be sure your title is good before spending a lot money or time on the truck. I had to get a the Highway patrol to verify my truck before getting it titled, they were check serial numbers of the engine and transmission. They were not worried about the other aspects of the truck, just looking for stolen pieces. I have had YOM tags since 2001, so no inspections since.

My truck had springs so worn, the bushings were gone and the pins were riding on the leaf itself. On top of that, each leaf had worn a groove in the spring above it so deep, the springs could barely slide. It was like solid springs at each corner. The truck came from Hillsboro KS, a heating company used it for 30 years traveling the Flint Hills area.

Unless a shock absorber is bound up internally somehow, it will have no influence whatsoever on ride height. A shock is there to dampen out the oscillations of the spring after the vehicle hits a bump. The amount of jounce/rebound dampening is determined by the internal valving of the hydraulic fluid inside the shock. Even modern "gas" shocks will have a negligible effect on ride height, since the pressure inside the shock is minuscule, compared to the weight the springs are supporting.
Jerry

A quick look at the rear this evening....passenger spring is noticeably less arched than the driver side.

For someone else who’s been down this path....

Better to find and old replacement and refurbish them or just buy a new pair? I suspect it’s the latter

Jw51,
When i did my truck I took my springs to a local big truck Spring and Chassis shop, They replaced the main leaf on all four springs and one or two others that were broken. Re arched the springs and it was cheaper than buying new and paying shipping. Also done in two days, Installed new bushing in the spring eyes and I was ready to roll. You might look for a spring/chassis shop locally and see what they tell you. Good luck.

When you say big truck, you mean like a semi-shop?

There are two methods of re-arching leaf springs. Here's a pretty good synopsis of both procdures:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/re-arching-leaf-springs-a-lost-art/

The anneal/reshape/re-temper method is more effective, but it's also much more expensive.
Jerry

I'd take my springs to a big-truck shop - a shop that works on 2-ton and larger trucks.

If they do not work on springs, ask them for the name of shops that do.

If they do not have the specs - check the Specifications Manual or Truck Data Book for your year.

If I don’t find something more local, I’ve got a quote from St. Louis Spring and Brake to rehab the originals. Pretty reasonable. From what I’ve gathered, they can do the springs and provide u bolts and rear bushings.

Need to get a list together of everything else I’ll need. Just gonna make the rear suspension new while I’m at it. Looks like Rock Auto has most, if not all of it. Let me know what I’m missing.

* Rear shackles
* front bushing. (Hardware?)
* shocks (will they come with new hardware and bushings?)

Also, look at Eaton Detroit springs.

JW51,

Check out this THREAD.

Good luck,

Good stuff, Andy. Did you look into having St Lous Spring rehab yours before deciding on new? Or did you decide that yourself after looking at your springs?

Actually, I was looking at a local shop (Midwest Frame & Axle) for the rehab. After I really examined my springs, I priced new at St. Louis Spring. If I remember correctly, I purchased the front and rear springs for just north of $600.00. Also, my wife had a horse show in St. Louis so I was able to pick them up and save the cost of shipping.

The new springs have really transformed how the '47 rides and handles. If you find broken springs and wear grooves on your springs-among other things, I'd highly recommend upgrading to new springs.

St. Louis spring has been around a long time and has a good reputation.
But, if you go to pick them up, make an appointment during the day.
It is located in a challenged neighborhood.

Don

They told me $100-$125 per spring for the rebuild and about $160 new. I wasn’t worried about the extra money, just thought it might be good to keep the originals. Probably best to just hit the easy button and go with new.

Don, I kinda wondered about the neighborhood. Was gonna have my wife stop by there next week while she was up there, but perhaps I will rethink that.

Anyone happen to know what size u bolts I need?

Measured my old ones.
1-7/8 x 4 (inside dimensions), 1/2-20 threads.
Not sure whether those were front or rear u-bolts, and IIRC, one or the other was slightly longer.

[on edit] Those were fronts. Rears were 4-3/4" long.

Thank you!

Is the lower shock mount on the rear suspension just the bar that connect the u bolt with a stud sticking out?

Yes, The bar bends up and the stud is welded on it.

This pic shows my original that's been replaced. The stud had been buggered up, so I had new bars made up and welded new shock studs on them.

Ok, mine looked kinda wonky so I wasn’t sure if that was the stock setup.

Did your frame have the bumper thing in the wheel arch? I’ve seen that in some parts diagrams but I don’t seem to have that.

LOL My frame had bumper things in the wheel arch, but they were about 4" deep sections of 6" steel pipe. Those were the first things that got whacked off when I started disassembling. I'm guessing someone fitted some coil overloads in place, but not sure.
I do have the rubber overload bumpers that go in the wheel arch which will go in when I get to that point.

Here's a pic of the rear shock mounts, the original one and the two replacements.

Got my new rear leaf springs yesterday. Still have to track down some shackles and miscellaneous stuff before I go tearing things apart.

Are there any measurements or geometry I need to be concerned with when replacing rear suspension? Or does everything sort of line itself back up? Shop manual has very little to say on the subject.

The only thing you need to be careful with is loosening the pivot bolts on the axle mounts to settle them in the correct position. Otherwise just bolt it together.

I generally find that parts are much cheaper from the parts store or rock auto than the specialty truck vendors.

However, with spring shackles it seems to be the opposite! Yowza, Napa wants like nearly $70 per side.

I got the spring bolt & bushing sets (at frame bracket) from Rockauto and the shackles from Jim Carter. Those were the best prices I could find at the time.
Shackles were $70+/- for both fronts and for both rears.

Jim Carter lists the shackles at $40 each and LMC for $25 each.

From the look of things, I suspect I'm gonna have some trouble getting the bushings out of the rear frame mounts. Anyone got a tip on that? I don't own a torch other than a handheld. Maybe borrow the Ball joint press thing from the parts store?

You can make your own from a few parts from the hardware store to remove and install the new ones. I did it on my ‘52 and it was fairly easy. Here is a link from a fellow ’bolters website (Pre ‘68 Dave), that shows the process.

https://chev235guy.blogspot.com/search/label/Spring%20Shackle%20Bushing%20Replacement

That’s a great tip. I’m somewhat skeptical that will even be able to get the threaded pin out of the bushing, but if I do...I will definitely try that.

Should a guy put some sort of anti-seize on the OD of the new bushing?

Soak it with penetrating fluid ahead of time and tap it with a hammer to help loosen it.

Yes, that would help get the new ones in!