The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop New Tires & Wheels for Big Iron

Replacing the tires on my '51 6400 Fire Truck has led me, I think, to replacing the wheels. Took the 6 old wheels/Tires to the truck tire shop. The guy looked at the 2-piece rims and immediately started back-peddling, mumbling about suicide rims, and how they're illegal, and his insurance won't pay, blah blah blah. Well, I was hot and bothered already from loading these 6 big muthuhs into my truck, and I was none-too-happy when he said he wouldn't do it.

When I calmed down some, he said he could probably find newer same-size wheels to mount the tires I'd chosen, with the same bolt pattern.

So does anyone have any ideas about what model wheels will match my split-rims? The tires are 8.25 x 20 (huge!). I think they're 10-lug (not totally sure if they're 10 or 8, actually).

Owning old, big trucks is getting harder and harder. Firestone's going to stop making bias-ply tires this fall, I heard. What's a fire-truck collector to do?!? :confused:

-Michael

Item #1: Find a tire shop owner with some ball$!

There's nothing wrong with sectional rims, if they're cleaned and inspected, then assembled properly. 8.25X20 tires are actually one of the smallest sizes of 20" tires out there, and your local farmers' Co-op store should have access to thousands of them. Be sure to get new inner tubes and "liners", the rubber flap that fits between the tube and the rim. They should be included with the tube-type bias-ply tires at no extra charge.

I just called my local Farmers' Co-op store, (Fayetteville, TN) and the Co-Op brand "Super Fleet" 8.25X20 tube-type tire costs $123.25, including the liner. The tubes cost $14.95 each. No problem mounting them! Ain't it great, living in backwoods Tennessee?
Jerry

yeah, backwoods Tennessee sounds easier than St. Louis, MO when it comes to old trucks. These guys don't care about old iron. On the other hand, Unfortunately, I need to go with what's convenient, and I suspect nobody in St. Louis will touch these things. That being said, when they dismounted the old tires, the old rims were VERY rusty inside, and pretty deteriorated, so maybe they SHOULD be replaced, anyway. I'm trying to maintain a long-term outlook.
Interesting about that Co-op brand - I'll keep that in mind.

-Michael

Can you post some pics? I can usually tell by looking if a wheel is dangerous, and there are several old truck dismantlers around here who might have original-equipment replacements in good shape. If you get out of town even a little, into a farming community, I'll bet you'll find more cooperative people. There are still lots of those oldtime rigs being used in farm work, and the shops that do business with the farmers can't afford to get too picky about what they do. Don't let some wimp store owner push you into an expensive replacement situation simply because he's a pantywaist!
Jerry

MIkeStem Before you give up and shell out big $$ for new rims look in the yellow pages for Truck stops and give them a try. They are used to working big tires and maybe able to help out. It still works in Texas.

These guys are right. There are tire dealers out there who work on these rims daily. If you want to keep the original rims, check with independent truck tire dealers. Also check with the Co-ops outside of the city.

I have a dealer in Wichita who works with the old rims. He also has no problem getting bias ply tires made in Mexico. They still use a lot of them there. When I was checking into some 17" bias ply tires, he found what I was looking for at a wholesaler in St. Louis. So you do have a source, you just have to find it.

When I had 7.50x16's mounted to my wheels I took them to a truck tire shop I have dealt with for years young kids looked at them didn't have a clue but I knew one of the older persons in the shop he did them for me while the younger kids watched hopefully they learned something so I can keep going there as it is close although the older person said I always bring in the hard stuff anyway nothing wrong with the old wheels if you can find a good shop.

Dave

Yeah, I was afraid nothing would match up easy. I get the wheels back from them end of this week - I'll sandblast them and then examine them closely. I guess I'll hunt around for a braver truck tire place, probably across the river in Illinois.

Thanks for all the wisdom, and the shot of encouragement. People who don't respect old trucks get me all agitated.

-Michael

Mikestem,
If you find a place in the St. Louis area that is happy to work on split rims, let me know. We have a '51 GMC 350 that is going to need new tires.

If they're 8-lug, I can tell you what works, because I went through that on my '52 GMC 3/4 ton pick up.

I used the chrome wheels off of a 2000 GMC Yukon, they're 16" 8-lug wheels and match the original stud pattern exactly, except that I had to include a set of 1 1/4" spacers. How? Well the spacers use their own set of lugnuts and then have their own studs. Then the wheel mounts to the spacer's studs.

The tires I used are 265/75R-16 Uniroyal Laredo's. They're tall and wider, and the ride is 100% better. Plus the chrome wheels look fantastic on the old ride.
Hope that helps.

If that's what you need and you can't find them, let me know and I know where you can buy them. Along with the spacers you'll need. They can even mount up the tires and ship them to you.

Close, but no seegar!
The 16" wheels won't fit over his brake drums, and the tires would be way too short to replace those 8.25 X 20 tires he's got now. These are real truck tires and wheels, and any regular truck tire outfit should be able to do the mounting without any problems. He's just dealing with a passenger car tire shop, and they're afraid of a real truck.
Jerry

I had a flat in front of my house once in the dump truck and called my favorite big truck tire place a couple of towns away. He sent his truck and guy that is all set up to do it on the road. How do you think the big trucks change tires? They just call someone that comes to them. If you can't get to one of these guys, call around and they will come to you. If you have some big freeways nearby, there should be mobile tire guys.

He used some breaking bars and a big hammer. No cage or chain. I watched from behind the truck.

My dealer actually IS a TRUCK tire dealer - last I was there, a big ol' dump truck pulled up, and they quickly had one of the duals off and changed it right there.

I went ahead and had them dismount the old tires and save the wheels and rims for me. I watched them dismount a couple of them. They lubricated the tire rim, then used a sledge hammer with a blunt blade (sorta like a pick axe) to break the bead. And I mean he was swingin' for the stands! Of course, he was bitchin' about what junk these old wheels are, and how dangerous. I think that's pretty tacky, in front of the customer especially. It pi$$ed me off some.

Anyway, I picked them up friday and took 'em to my shop. I discovered a nice, 4-inch gash in one of the rims, straight through. Funny . . . it seems to match the shape of the sledge blade they were using to de-bead the tires - go figure! :mad:

well, when I complained to the dealer, he went on for 10 minutes about how these wheels are like bombs ready to go off any minute, they weren't any good when they were NEW, and how I wouldn't want to hurt anybody, especially a child, or worse. I thanked him for his advice, and said his was one of many opinions I was considering. His urged me not to listen to sombody with no truck tire experience, like at Dobbs or something, but only to listen to a true truck dealer, and he listed 5 of his competitors.

Now, for the interesting part. He says I could convert to tubeless wheels, and put radials on it, 22.5R-somethin' or other. He said they would bolt right up, and be totally safe. He ALSO said it would cost over $2500 dollars, tires included. (That, by-the-way, is more than I paid for the truck).

Funny thing is, even though he would benefit from selling me expensive new wheels, I am convinced he honestly believes what he is telling me, and that he has integrity. I'm not immune to his, and myriad others', arguments about the danger of suicide rims. Especially when I saw the condition of the wheels and rims. I can't deny it - I have two small children of my own, and I would ABSOLUTELY CRUMBLE if anyone was ever hurt by my wheels, especially for the sake of saving money.

I just haven't decided what to do yet.

I took photos, but haven't learned how to post yet. I'll work on that. Sorry for the long vent.

-Michael

The tubeless equivalent of a 20" tube-type tire is a 22.5" tire. For instance, a 10.00-20 tire, and an 11-22.5 are the same height, and approximately the same width. I don't know if there is a direct-swap for a 8.25 X 20, but I don't think there is. It seems the tire dealer ruined at least one of your rims on purpose. There is no excuse for hitting a rim hard enough with a tire hammer to knock a hole in it! I have destroyed rims that were damaged beyond safe re-use, but I've done it by cutting big holes in them with a torch!
Jerry

Have you tried these guys yet,
(AA Wheel & Truck Supply) 816-221-9556 . They are here in Kansas City. We buy from them all the time at the school bus shop I work at. We bought a set of three piece rims for one of the warehouse trucks that use 8.25's just last year.

It would help to know the bolt pattern diameter, stud diameter, and lug nut type.

If you run into this problem again, spend some time and dismount the tires your self. If they been on awhile, you will work you butt off!! Once the air is out they are harmless. Never, ever try and air one up with out the safety cage !!!!!!!!!

Joe