The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop 61 Apache C20 Front End Swap

Hey all, first post in a while.
As the title says I have 1961 C20. I want to get all the benefits from a newer front end I can get, the PS, PB, 5 lug hubs, disc brakes etc.. so I want to swap a 73-87 front end on it. And maybe down the line a 5.3 V8 to replace the 235.

Anyway I found someone with a 79 C10 front end they would sell me with the steering box asking $300

I am new to restoration and mechanical work but not new to cars, I feel I've got a good handle on the concepts but not much wrench time if you know what I mean.

I am planning on going to go see it next week. My question is will the '79 1/2T stuff fit on my '61 3/4T frame?

You can search the site for mod questions. Many combos have been addressed previously. Also the hipo forum will solicit much more response. We will see what responses you get here first but we may move this question over at some point.
Hb

bump

So didn't end up getting that '79 half ton but I did get my hands on an '87 R20 Silverado. I am currently parting it out slowly and waiting for the weather to get warm. Plan is to get the front end out of there and clean it up, not sure how far I'll go but I'd like to go as far as sand blasting and powder coating and a front end rebuild kit like this one https://www.performanceonline.com/1...sion-Rebuild-kit-PolyUrethane-Bushings/. Anyone used a rebuild kit like this one with the poly bushings?

Also, been wondering if anyone has done this swap and can give me some info about what happens to the engine? The '87 has its motor mounts right on the crossmember I will be swapping in. My 235 has its saddle mount on the existing crossmember but can I keep the 235 and mount it to the new crossmember some how?

Anyone know? I’ve never done an engine swap or any other sort of custom work. I have a small garage, limited tools and means so I’m trying to get all the info I need so I can start with what I need to finish. I’ve seen most of the write ups concerning this swap and I have not seen any that address how to deal with the 235 engine mounts.

Sounds like a good reason to leave it alone!

I have a 61 chevy C20. Every component of that front end can be bought. I know because I just did it this last year. And yes that includes both upper and lower control arm shafts.. after that. It is very pleasant ride I have to say.

It is a near bolt in from a 1979. Bolt it all in with the bolts that will fit through the 61 frame. Mark and drill/elongate holes that do not line up. You will have to relocate the upper shock mounts and reroute the front brake lines, and make mounts for the sway bar.

Hi David C., I've seen rebuild kits

POL has this
https://www.performanceonline.com/1960-62-Chevy-GMC-C20-Truck-Front-Suspension-Rebuild-Kit/ - $833.06

CPP has PN 6062SFK-PT for a much more reasonable $319 but doesn't offer a description, I've emailed them for a parts list.

Did you get one of those?

CPP and POL have kits for 73-87 for $309 and $217, which are both more afforable.

At the time of the OP I'm not sure one was available or maybe I hadn't looked hard enough. In any case I'm pretty much set and ready to go for work on the '87. Its half pulled apart in my driveway, I'm just waiting to get some warmer weather to pull it off an get to cleaning it up and rebuilding it. If it's not good enough to rebuild I guess I'll re think keeping the stock crossmember and rebuilding it. Also I don't see replacement torsion bars anywhere... anyone have any idea where those can be found, or is that what you mean by control arm shafts?

Hey Builder, I'm optimistic it will be just as simple with the '87 3/4 ton crossmember. Any rules of thumb to follow for remounting the shocks or ways to check if the new location is a good one? Think I can use the 61 shocks?

Im kinda curious on the reason for the swap? If you want a half ton truck, buy one. But really the three quarter ton that might need some work or refreashing, is really a better truck all around. Bigger brakes, suspension, hauling compacity. Half ton truck= half the capability. Why down grade? JMO. its your truck, do what you see fit. We will all support you. But maybe consider selling the truck you got and buy the truck you want??

Just a couple of questions. 1) If this is that easy of a swap why hasn't it been done more often? It makes sense that if you want to upgrade the front suspension you would go with something that had parts available. This certainly fits that bill. 2) Why not just rebuild what you have, after all a 60' had IFS on it from the factory. As Glenn has pointed out you are going from a 3/4 ton to 1/2 ton....

I would like to follow along on you decision. I had thought of doing this to my 59' just wasn't sure of the track width and difference in frame width in mounting.

The donor truck I am working with is a 1987 R20 Silverado, R is the 2WD designation for ‘87-‘88, the 20 means 3/4 ton as per usual. Originally, I was having trouble finding any donor cross member, I had a lead on a ‘79 1/2 ton crossmember and was trying to see if it would work out of desperation. The 73-87 trucks prices are high these days and I had trouble finding anything affordable. Several ads for part outs on Craigslist already had crossmembers gone for similar swaps, or so I heard.

But just to reiterate I’m working with a 3/4 ton now!

I’ve had my mind set on this a while, much longer than there have been good rebuild kits for the front end. I’ve got the thing all torn apart in my driveway so I’ve got the momentum and I like the idea of working with 26 years newer parts.

Depending on how the crossmember shakes out I may just end up rebuilding what I have.

It’s got a lot of surface rust so if I can clean it all up and verify it’s solid I plan to go forward with it.

I wasn't questioning the 1/2 or 3/4 ton issue, just the crossmember swap it self. How does this measure up, is it close to the same track? How does it match up to the frame? Is the frame close to the same height and width? ... I was just thinking this swap makes a lot of sense as the parts are everywhere

Widths look the same, hard to get a good measurement with the engine still in the ‘61 but looks to be 23” where the crossmember mounts to the frame. Word on the web is, ‘63-‘87s will bolt into ‘60-‘62s, an extra hole needs to be drilled another elongated. I’m referencing these links for this build:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=366828

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1154798/73-87_Chevy%5CGMC_front_suspensi.html

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1.....0i71j30i10j0i8i30j0i8i7i30.cBEJo5G38Bo

I can't tell you about the 3/4 ton. The 1/2 ton is a pretty straight forward swap. It works well. To answer some of the questions, I will only address what I know.
The frame rails measurements are the same. It is a direct swap as far as the fit. Bolt up the factory holes that line up. Mark and drill/oblong the other 4 holes. From that point I used parts for the late model front suspension.
63-87 will all be this direct of a swap. 73 to 87 have disk brakes, so that is the reason I made the swap, along with getting rid of the torsion bar suspension.
Donor vehicles would be 1973 to 1987 1/2 ton, 2 wheel drive Suburban and pickups. Vans may work also, but I cannot tell you for sure.
For the shocks I bought new ones for the front suspension I swapped in. I bolted them to the bottom A-arm, and mounted them where they naturally wanted to be on the frame. I cut off the old frame shock mounts.
The steering gear I used was a late model quick ratio. There is a mount kit you use with the new power steering quick steer box. It mounts on the outside of the frame nearly in the same spot.
Trust me that this swap is quite simple. I assembled it as a whole piece onto my frame. One thing I did was leave all the shims for alignment in their original places. It makes alignment a little easier I am told. Something about making true center easier to find.
That is more instructions than I had to do my swap when I started. Good luck.

Here’s a few photos for fun with where I am at.

1. Photo of truck in original complete condition, 81,XXx miles. You may have seen one like it if you troll the Twin cities craigslist for Chevy truck parts

2. Me pulling the engine. Had a lot of help from my brother disconnecting everything but he was gone before it came out.

3. The front end minus all the engine, trans and body parts.

4. Drivers side suspension condition

5. Passengers side suspension condition

Much appreciated Builder! Disc brakes are the reason I sought out a later truck. I also plan to use a new power steering kit to use the supplied brackets to locate all the mounting points so I don’t have to make a template, but I am going to use the Steering box and pump from my donor truck to save some money.

After my last post with the photos, I removed the crossmember and was left with most everything I didn't want. Aside from a few parts here and there, everything was scheduled to be scrapped.

I didn't have any cutting equipment so I went about finding some. Trying to keep the budget down, I looked for sales on new tools and scoured CraigsList for used ones. Eventually, I ended up at my local pawn shop and got a Dewalt 4.5" angle grinder and also a Dewalt reciprocating saw, after testing them out in store, for the paltry sum of $45. Since I'm building my tool inventory from the ground up, this was such a score! I got some assorted cutting and grinding wheels for the grinder and metal cutting blades for the saw.

On a side note, I would have liked to have kept the truck until I was done with the swap, but that was not an option, it needed to be gone. So, with my tools of destruction in hand, I set about cutting this thing up.

I don't have any fun picture of the demo as it progressed but there was plenty of noise, smoke, dirt, sparks, sweat and side eyes from the neighbors. Luckily the whole ordeal only took about a week. I took it slow, cutting things down to manageable sizes and cutting further to make it carry-able. I put the majority of the scrap on the boulevard with a sign and it was picked up within the following week. Coveralls, leather boots, gloves, glasses and hear protection made everything happen without a hitch.

All this work got me down to what I needed: the crossmember. Finally, about a year later! I did also keep the brake booster, power steering pump and engine. I was able to sell the trans and much of the interior to offset the trucks original cost.

I'll rebuild the suspension and brakes with all new parts but I want to refurbish the crossmember itself before hand.

I considered using my grinder to take all the surface rust off, but I knew there would be areas I couldn't reach. I thought about having it sandblasted but would have had to drive 45 minutes and the guy quoted me way more than I wanted to spend. I want this thing to be as clean as possible before I put it in the new truck so I considered chemicals. For the non-toxic DIY route, Evapo-rust has great reviews but its expensive. Prohibitively so for the size part I am working with. With all that taken into consideration, I chose another option. Very clean and easy to do with minimal investment, and also slightly scientific.

In my next post, I'll let you know what I decided to do and show you how I did it.