The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 6Volt start issues

Hey fellas,

I just paid a lot of money to have a 1954 235 bolt rebuilt. It appears that the motor starts and runs great. The problem occurs when you shut the motor off. It will not restart right away after shutting the motor down. The generator was just rebuilt this week, the USA made regulator adjusted, and still the shop believes there's too much compression built up to turn the motor enough to start. I personally think they're full of crap. I think it might be the battery, even though I replaced it in may, it's been run down to nothing many times. It does charge and will start the motor initially.

Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I'm going to get my truck regardless. I'm done with the shop. Time to figure it out myself with the help of my friends and other mechanics. After this escapade, I should've swapped out the motor for a 350. Too late for that. Truck's been part of the family since 8 yrs old, need to fix it correctly.

Thanks, JS

When you get it home check to make sure ALL grounds are bare metal to bare metal.

There is a braided ground wire from the battery to the frame.
You might want another braided ground wire from the frame to the clutch housing or a starter bolt.

Make sure all the contact points are clean and shiny. I coat all sides of the contact surfaces with an anti-oxidant copper impregnated "grease".

antioxidant "greases"
I use this Permatex Product.
NAPA and other auto stores have their own similar product.

So maybe a few details would help. Does it turn over really slowly when it doesn’t start?

When I replaced my 235 in my truck years ago I painted the engine cleaned and painted the engine bay . Both starter and generator rebuilt the engine would start up right away when cold but if the truck was warm the starter would turn the engine over but the engine would not start .The truck would start up right away if I rolled down a hill and bumped it into gear ,so I always parked on a hill while I was figuring out the problem .The problem was the ground after getting hot it was not making a good contact even when the starter turned over well when hot it seemed like there was not enough juice for the engine to get spark .

Also make sure your battery cables are heavy enough. Need to be 0 or 00 gauge. The ones you buy in the store for 12 volt systems won't cut it.

After this escapade, I should've swapped out the motor for a 350. Too late for that. Truck's been part of the family since 8 yrs old, need to fix it correctly.

Thanks, JS[/quote]

Thought about going V8 30 some years ago, glad I'm still Inline!

Lots of good posts.
I'm with the `too well painted` camp` . Voltage drop 101, jumper cable across circuits, i.e. battery negative to start & see if cranking speed increases, same idea on positive side but tricky with cables. If you have a decent voltmeter easy enough to do a loaded voltage drop test. 1st thing as others suggested, clean all connections of paint.

Escapade?

Learning experience?

I could be out to lunch, but maybe it will take a few hundred miles to wear in the fresh rebuild. I had a similar issue and felt the freshly rebuilt engine turned very slowly when hot.

Mind you my engine would always start, and maybe it helped that the valves and timing were properly set.

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Under sized cables will not work for 6 volts, as mentioned above, 0 or 00 cable size makes a big difference. Next, remove all cables and clean the contact points down to bare steel. If you use star washers, use them on the top side of the bolts, not between the cable and block.

Go have the battery load checked, have them do it twice with a five minute delay between checks.

Pull the starter apart and check the brushes for proper contact and spring tension.

As just mentioned above, a fresh engine needs drive time to loosen up the rings, so get it out and drive if you can, just don't shut it off till you back at home

Joe

Agreed with Joe.
Thickest cables you can buy!
Then All contacts especially the grounds.
If you have a ground to frame and ground to engine. Both.
Clean bolts too!
Makes a World of a difference on a 6 volt.
Trust me on this one. Been there fixed that on my 6 volt truck
** And a Good battery. Have it checked, it doesn't take much and it won't have enough to crank your engine.
Todd

Have someone spin the engine with the starter for 15 seconds with the ignition off while you monitor the battery voltage at the posts (not the cable terminals). While still cranking, the voltage should not drop below 4.5 volts. If it does, either recharge of replace the battery. Then do the same test with the ignition switch on while monitoring voltage at the coil + terminal with the coil center lead removed from the distributor cap. I solved a chronic "slow start" problem on a 1955 International pickup by repairing a loose, dirty connection at the ignition switch that was dropping the voltage available to the coil during cranking to 3.5 volts. Huge battery cables and clean, tight connections are an absolute must. I learned 6V electrical diagnosis and maintenance back in the early 1960's on a flathead Ford V8 with 11.25:1 compression ratio Offenhauser finned aluminum cylinder heads left over from one of my father's 1/4 mile round track dirt racers!
Jerry

Several have told me that an 8 volt battery is preferred and yet compatible with 6 volt gauges and light bulbs. It may not hurt to go to an 8 volt, but, I have been told by both points of view that the regulator does or it does not need adjustment. Experts can weigh in about this.

Stepping up to an 8 volt battery may not get to the root of your current issues (pun not intended) but there may be some advantages too. But, do use the 0 or 00 cables and improve your grounds as Tim suggests.

6V mantra: “Clean, bright, and tight”

I have done the 8 volt route some 55 years ago when you could still get quality voltage regulators. It served the intended purpose of faster starts. Didn’t own the Ferd long enough to find any pitfalls. Your experience may vary.

An 8 volt battery is a solution to a nonexistent problem. In order to keep an 8V battery charged properly, the voltage regulator MUST be adjusted to 9.5 volts. That's tough on 6V light bulbs in general and headlights in particular. It also puts a lot of stress on the generator. Back in the late 1950's, my father was approached by a local battery manufacturer in Nashville (Hester Battery Co.) to develop an installation kit he could sell along with his 8V batteries to drop the voltage to the accessories to avoid the problems associated with over-voltage. Dad did that, but the cost of the kit was too much to justify its inclusion in the sale of the battery. Gene Hester, the owner of the company, was a greedy cheapskate who worshipped the profit margin far above providing a quality product!
Jerry

6 Volt starter update. The problem is solved! The "vintage" shop the truck was at put in a 12V wired starter. It drew too many amps and would start the motor once then done. Brought it to one of my local guys, we checked the timing, checked all grounds, and found out that the starter the other shop installed was wrong. Sad thing is I asked them to have the old one rebuilt, but they just replaced it and it was wrong! They then claim too much compression. That's when I went and got my truck and fixed it myself. Some considerable money later, the truck runs and starts perfectly.
Thanks for all advice, I just wish shops were as competent as they claim to be.

All that's left is to go reclaim some of my money from the vaunted "vintage" shop. What a joke!