As I am sure most drivelines do my 54 3100 leaks. Not a lot but enough. I suspect it is all original. I was considering freshening up the driveline. My definition of this is new u-joints and seals/gaskets. I have never removed one of these. I have an envelope labeled truck and I have been stuffing cash into it when I get a chance. I was considering taking it to a local Vintage Auto Shop near me and just having them do it. I figured this was a straight forward procedure if they are any good and have the experience. They have been in business for almost 50 years. They gave me an estimate over the phone. The first qualifier the mechanic gave was he wasn't sure without seeing it but could not remember if the rear axle had to be dropped on my truck. If so, obviously more effort(time). He gave me an estimate of 10 hours. At $85/hr labor plus parts I have already decided I am not going to pay someone else to do it. So here is my question. Does 10 hours effort to complete sounds close? Keep in mind this will be a first for me. If so, bigger job than I thought. I still need to do it but want an idea of what I am getting into.
If you work slow it might take you 10 hours. A professional should be able to do it much faster. I recently did all the things you are concerned about while also removing my heavy 4 speed trans and clutch assembly so I could replace the pilot bushing. I did all that in under ten hours work time but if you add up the time I spent cussing and sweating on my back under the truck it was probably longer. I got estimates for this larger job than what you are talking about that ranged from $500-1200. The $1200 guy made it clear he wasn't keen on doing the job. You do not have to remove the rear axle to do this, just rotate it back on its pivots. Don't have the truck supported by the rear end. None of this address replacing the torque tube bushing which has no effect on external oil leaks.
What should I do to address the external oil leaks? I was thinking in order to replace gaskets/seals I would have to take everything apart and migh as well change the u-jonts while I was at it.
What should I do to address the external oil leaks? I was thinking in order to replace gaskets/seals I would have to take everything apart and might as well change the u-joints while I was at it.
Dave, I think Chuck is describing the work needed to deal with the external oil leaks.
"None of this address replacing the torque tube bushing which has no effect on external oil leaks." Chuck is referring to the torque-tube bushing having no effect on external oil leaks. If I am incorrect, Chuck will correct/clarify.
Where is it leaking? If the leak is coming from the ball pivot at the back of the transmission there are a few gaskets and seals that are fairly simple to replace, and not that expensive, as I recall. The majority of your time will be spent getting everything cleaned up and rust-free so the new seals won't be damaged during assembly or on the first test drive. One very important adjustment is the fit of the pivot ball to the transmission housing, which is adjusted by adding or removing shim gaskets under the ball retainer collar. To do this properly the ball must be removed from the torque tube so you can pivot it around and feel the drag on the ball. Once that's done, put a new seal under the big gland nut at the rear of the ball and reassemble everything. Changing the U joint is a good idea, since it must be disconnected to get the ball off the torque tube.
If the leak is back at the rear end, a lot more work is involved, and that does require removing and disassembling the axle assembly. An occasional pressure wash and topping off the gear lube is the simplest, and least expensive way to deal with the problem. You can buy several barrels of gear lube and a pretty good pressure washer for the cost of being anal-retentive about a few drops of oil. A bad internal seal at the front of the torque tube can result in the transmission oil leaking into the rear end and overfilling it. That can result in leaky wheel bearing seals, and eventually lube coming out of the axle tube vent. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I have the same leak and would like to do a refresh also .I have changed rear seals twice over the years and think I have to do a oakie bushing ,I have also changed the transmission oil and after found the rear end a little low so I think it may have been that I did not fill were the ball is. I have a newer sm420 that I may swap as it has the rear back up light switch.keep posting your progress maybe a good time to do mine as I have been putting it off for too long
A small amount of leak is normal. This is 50's tech. Replacing the torque tube bushings can be a real pistol. Do the easy things first and see if it works. Here is a rough idea. The propeller shaft (torque tube) has to move in and out a little bit as the rear axle moves up and down during driving. The section between the propeller shaft and the transmission tail housing is the "universal joint ball". There is a knurled ring that holds the seal/packing in place at the propeller shaft end. Seal wear is normal over time. At the transmission tail housing connection, the ball" is sealed but it is designed to allow a small amount of movement. Seal wear is normal over time. I can't remember if the transmission oil first needs to drained but you should read the shop manual. Prepare to make your garage floor nasty. Remove the 4 bolts from the ball end and pull the retaining collar back. Clean off the dirt, grease and remove the surface rust off of the end of the propeller shaft. Loosen the knurled ring. You should now be able to slide the assembly back (direction toward the rear axle). Inspect the ball for wear grooves. If there are grooves (depth?) then it needs to be replaced or repaired. Follow the instructions in the shop manual for seal replacement.
"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use." "I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
That's a 15 minute fix- - - - -but only if you take a coffee break or a short nap in the middle of the job. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The oil drip is located at the torque tube retainer. There is a rubber oil seal sandwiched between two O-ring washers inside the screw on retainer. The reason why they start to leak, is because the rubber oil seal gets hard and looses its sponginess and it can't bulge any longer. The screw on retainer cap loosens on the threads because there is no longer any back pressure coming from the rubber oil seal. And the rubber oil seal no longer bulges creating a oil seal at the front end of the torque tube.
With some square neoprene seal ring material, some super glue, and an X-Acto knife, you can change that seal without having to do anything other than unscrew the gland nut. Wrap the O ring material tightly around the torque tube, make a cut in the seal material at a 45 degree angle, and glue it together. If you put the cut at the top of the tube, it doesn't even have to be a very good joint! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I would open the "bell/ball" and inspect the u-joint (as described by buoymaker, I think).
Replace u-joint and bushings, if necessary. Replace the rear rubber seal that slides on the thoroughly cleaned-up outside of the torque-tube. Replace and "adjust" the bell/ball gaskets (as described in the Shop Manual).
There is no need to drop the transmission to do this. No need to cut/glue any seals /gaskets.
If you can get the vehicle high enough to easily scoot in-and-out on a "scooter board" this could be a 2-3 hour job.
The external parts clean-up takes the most time - it has to be done in either "technique/procedure".
I have done this procedure a couple of times prior to my recent pilot bushing replacement (do not use the steel pilot bushing many supplies furnish- I learned the hard way!). I was trying to stop leaks in the earlier episodes. I found what jorb described above- the knurled collar/nut had loosened. My gasket kits have always supplied a cork gasket for both the ball and the sliding end of the ball tube but I don't think that matters. I forget who posted this tip but it has helped my system stay pretty leak free. Use one hose clamp around the knurled collar and another just in front of that on the end of the ball tube. They cinch down a little bridge between them and this will keep the collar from loosing on its own. Still won't stop the gasket wearing over time but that is where mine used to leak and keeping that collar tight has pretty much eliminated leaks over a pretty long time.
Unless there's leakage between the ball and the cover (which the picture does not appear to show) that's a can of worms I'd prefer not to open. Getting the stack of gaskets and shims correct on the first try is going to be a guessing game. If you do a couple of them a week, you're probably going to get pretty good at it- - - - -and if things don't go right on your first try, I hope you have a good supply of gaskets so you can keep trying! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The only time I will open up that torque ball is if there is transmission fluid nearly gushing out, or if the transmission fluid is making its way past the seal into the differential, or if the u-joint is making racket. A simple drip of a leak is God's way of letting you know that you still have fluid in the transmission. There will be a real reason to open up the torque ball down the road eventually. Be patient.
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
What if the ball is stuck in place? The ball swivels for the up and down movement. The other other end of ball tube is for the in and out movement. Both have to work together or you'll have excessive seal wear. To me it looks like the area around the collar/ball is rusty and hasn't moved in a long time. That could explain why the propeller shaft looks to be tilted down rather than in line.
"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use." "I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
