The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop 53 on Full Size C1500 Chassis, Why not?

I see everyone putting AD trucks on S-10 frames, but I understand the S-10 is too narrow (by 5"!).

I have a ‘90 C1500 Full Size truck with a real strong 350. The length is too long, so I would have to shorten the frame (hard work, I know), but I would probably have to do that anyway since I can only find extended cab S-10s around and no long beds.

The C1500 tread width seams to be very close to the ‘53s, so I don’t think that will be a problem. I would think that it would be easier to shorten a frame than make it wider.

I have not started taking frame measurements, but will this weekend, after I start tearing down both trucks.

Has anyone tried this frame swap? I don’t see it discussed. Why can’t it be done?

FYI, I plan to shorten the 3800’s bed to the 1/2 ton 3100’s length. The 3800’s 222” overall length won’t fit in my garage.

53 Truck


Jim C.

That'd be a real shame to chop the bed on that 3800.

The newer full size frames are too wide for my liking they just look funny under an AD, even with offset wheels.

It's your truck though. You're the only one that's got to be happy. If you do go through with it, consider getting another bed to cut up and sell that 9 footer to someone who needs it.

Yeah, my plan was to try and sell the bed sides and find some shorter ones.

Jim C.

The bed sides for a half-ton are reproduced, so you can buy them new.

Measure the front track width again. I think you'll find it really doesn't fit very well.

I have an '89 K3500, which is probably wider than the C1500, but its wider than an AD by about a foot. I can't imagine making this swap look right.

The S-10 isn't 5 inches too narrow at the front is it? The swaps I've seen looked like the front fit real well. At the rear the 2-wheel-drive types are too narrow, but swapping to a 4-wheel-drive rear usually fixes it.

I think you are headed down the wrong path.

Even the s10 swaps I don't care for, but that's just me, well, and some others too I am sure.

Please don't ruin a good 3800, if it won't fit in your garage you either have the wrong garage or the wrong truck.
My 52 3800 could use some company if you decide you have the wrong truck....

What ever you do, be sure you are doing it for the right reasons, and do it well.

Good luck,
Grigg

I have not been able measure the trucks (they are not stored at my house), but I have found the following track widths for both vehicles online.

Front Track
1953 3804 56.250
1953 3604 57.125
1953 3104 56.750
1997 C1500 63.580
1995 S10 57.200

Rear Track
1953 3804 61.750
1953 3604 62.375
1953 3104 61.000
1997 C1500 63.580
1995 S10 55.120

It looks like the C1500 is good in the back and too wide in the front (about 3.5” per side). It also looks like the S10 is good in the front but too narrow in the rear (about 3.25” per side). I attached a matrix of the difference.

Track Width Matrix

An S-10 frame with a different rear end may be a better bet (but I don't have that frame, yet). I am concerned that AD-Engineering recommends 2.5" wheel spacers for the S-10 front suspension. Is this something that is required or not?

I will measure the C1500's front tires when turned lock to lock to see if they will fit within the '53s fenders. I will also position some tires underneath at 63.8” and post the pictures vs. stock 56.25” width.

Does anyone know if the frame kick-up over the rear axle will cause an issue with the ’53 bed?

Jim C.

Jim you are asking questions that might have multiple right answers, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Why do you want to do a frame swap?

It is much easier to change rear axles than it is to narrow a front suspension. If you look at Grigg's pictures you'll see he has narrowed a front (twice I'm aware of) and if you read AD-engineering carefully you'll decide his goal is new suspension under a stock looking truck.

What is your goal?

First off, I want to thank everyone for their input and help.

My reason for starting this forum topic is to two fold:
1) to gather input from Stovebolt Hot Rodders about the feasibility of using a full sized Chevy/GMC C/K truck chassis under a 1947-1953 AD pickup
2) to share the knowledge that I gain while I try put my '53 3800 on my '90 GMC C1500.

I want share this information because I could not find it specifically discussed using the search feature in this forum or elsewhere on the net. I hope by sharing my upcoming experiences here that I can either encourage or discourage others from trying the same project, depending on the outcome.

My goal for this vehicle is to have a fun to drive Chevy V8 powered cool looking pickup for cheap.

Wants:
Small Block V8
4 Speed Overdrive Automatic
Power Front and Rear Disc Brakes
Lowered Ride Height
Short Bed
Rust Free
Able to go faster than 45 MPH (new rear gear)

Don’t Wants:
Heavy body modifications: chopped top, sectioned body, channeled body
Perfect Restoration
Million Dollar Paint Job
POS Truck

Jim C.

I didn't see your photo when I made my first post. You're starting out with the wrong truck in my opinion. You should get a half ton to do that with.

I'll second that.

Also, I don't think you will achieve the "for cheap" goal you have set for yourself.
What you describe will be expensive, or reasonably so, just for parts and supplies, not counting any time or labor.

If you do find a way to do it "for cheap" I imagine you may have the "POS Truck" that you don't want, or at least an unsafe or unreliable one.

I don't mean to rain on your parade or upset you, I only speak from experience. I have done lots of modifications to my two Chevy trucks, and a 61 ford 350, with mostly used stuff. So far I have not done any cosmetic improvements, only mechanical, and I have spent many times more money than I care to admit. All the little things add up, from a rebuilt steering box, new PS lines, brake calipers, king pin set, nuts & bolts, seals, gaskets, brake lines, and on, and on, and on....
Everything I have done I have tried to do safely with no corners being cut. There are many places I could have skimped, but it would only cost more in the long run.

During all of this I have been in no rush, so I have had the time to search for great deals and the best prices, even finding lots of stuff I needed on eBay for a fraction of what I would have to pay at the junk yard or auto parts store.

I am not saying that what you want can't be done, only that you may be surprised at the cost in the end.

Grigg

This truck cost me next to nothing. My original plan was to only use the 5-window cab. If somebody wants to pay me much more than I think the truck is worth, I'll give up on my plan, but I really want a hot rod. I have the V8, trans, front brakes, and rear end. This is not a project that I plan to do fast or easily. I have time and I don't mind if things don't work right the first time. I'm just trying to learn what can and can't be done. I'm sure other newbies wonder why people only talk about S10 chassis swaps and if full sized truck will work or not.

I was just wondering if somebody here has ever tried this.

fyi, this pickup was headed for the scrap yard, before bought it.

Thank you. I know that I am just dreaming about this project being cheap. I do not plan to cut corners. If things won't work right or safely, I won't do them. I certainty won't make any permanent changes until I know things will fit.

Jim C.

I'm a hot rodder at heart, and understand why you may want to hot rod a 1-ton. But I think you might find it cheaper to get where you want to go if you can swap your way into a 1/2-ton truck.

Your 3800 has a 137 inch wheel base, where a 3/4-ton is 125 and a 1/2-ton is only 116. If you can find a 1/2-ton bed or replace the 1-ton sides with 1/2-ton sides, you can shorten the bed reasonably.

The section height of the 1-ton frame is quite a bit taller than a 1/2-ton, and the exact location of some parts, and the width from under the cab all the way back is different. The steel is also thicker. Together these mean it will weigh a lot more.

Shortening the box and frame, and the weight of the frame are reasons to consider a 1/2-ton instead of this 1-ton.

Okay with those issues out of the way, let me suggest a way to achive what you want, based on the truck you have. And do it for a relatively small investment.

There are no disk brake kits available for your current front axle but you could swap a 1/2-ton front axle under the truck and use a disk kit for one of those. And since you want to lower the truck, about $400 will buy a new dropped axle. That lowers the truck and puts disk brakes on the front. Probably under $1,000 total if you shop carefully. The key is swapping to 1/2-ton stuff.

At the rear install a later rear axle using a $150 axle kit. Start with an axle that has disk brakes and that piece is covered too.

Remove the original motor and transmission, remove the bellhousing crossmember, and purchase and install one of the V-8 crossmembers that are on the market. Those will set you back another $150 or so.

You didn't list power steering, but since modifying the steering column and box location is necessary to fit the V-8 in place you might as well go with one of the power steering kits too.

I've not addressed some of the details, and this approach probably spends a couple thousand before you're done, it was intended to illustrate how you can achive what you describe without making the radical changes you have proposed. Its probably cheaper than the frame swap approaches.

I figure its your truck and you can do with it as you please. But you'll find lots of experience here, and I think you'll want to really understand why people make various suggestions before rejecting any of them.

I'm building a 1-ton hot rod myself, but my purpose is a fun classic trailer puller and I want the beef of the 1-ton. I'm also doing a 1/2-ton hot rod for fun.

Jim C,
Looks like you have a 3/4 ton. A friend used a mid-70's Chevy full size pickup frame on his '47 3/4 ton. He had to shorten the frame about 6-8", but it worked pretty slick.

Another problem that might come up using the GMT 400 ('88-'98) chassis is the width of the frame itself, I do beleive that they are wider than the old 34" std frame older trucks use. I do know that it made aftermarket utility and dump beds a very difficult fit when they first came out, GM had to release a 2nd version of the 3500 with a 34" rear section so as not to lose the tow/utility/light dump truck industry. This might cause issues with the cab mountings bed mounting,and the running boards. Another not on the GMT 400, the frame is wider in the middle, and tapers to the rear, this will cause issues with shortening the frame.

Did this thread ever go anywhere? I too have an old 1/2 ton C1500. Was my truck I drove in college. Its just been sitting around on the farm getting used now and then. I think it would be cool to reuse that truck and add an old cab that I have extra from my current 3800 restore.

At stock height, there will be an issue with tire clearance with the front fenders on turns, especially where bumps in the road are encountered. The original front axles are narrow compared to later model full size trucks.

I have on my 1954 most if not all your goals but I have the original frame with a nova rear end and t5 transmission, A/C cruise, tilt column but I do have the original 235 and I get a lot of positive responses about keeping the stock engine. I drive it on a lot of long trips. I go to KC every year usually about 1200 round trip and I have been to HQ a couple of times another 1200 mile trip. Good luck on your quest. BTW pictures in my Photobucket and the gallery.

After two days and 6 posts the OP was never heard from again. Hmmm. Makes me wonder if anything was ever accomplished on his build.

He didn’t like the honest answers he was getting so he picked up his toys and left.