The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk 51 chevy 3100 with LeMans Suspension?

I’ve been wanting an old classic truck for years and I’m finally going to take the plunge. I have my eyes set on a 51 Chevy 3100, the one I found states “The front suspension has been upgraded with that of a Pontiac LeMans which rides much better than the original.” and has a Pontic steering wheel. The seller doesn’t have any more info than that so I’m hoping someone here can help me with a couple things.

1. Should I be weary of something like this? What’s the purpose of using a LeMans? Seems strange.
2. Aside from obvious questions what are some not so standard things I should be asking about when purchasing a truck like this? Unfortunately I can’t go look at it since it’s far out of state.

Thanks in advance!

Skyler Nelson,

First off, welcome to the Stovebolt Forum. I am the probably not the best person to ask if a Pontiac LeMans front end is a good fit for an AD Truck. I am more of a period correct kind of guy. However, I do understand the allure of modifying them. Some of them turn out great. Then, there are those that aren't so great. On a personal level, I have seen a lot of modifications done, including cutting off the old and attaching a new front clip/suspension. There is a whole lot of room for error. I would be cautious, when it came to purchasing something like that, without inspecting it very carefully first. Some of the other guys should weigh in soon, on the matter. Be careful not to let your enthusiasm get in the way of good judgement. Good luck with your decision. Hopefully, this advice, and others suggestions will help you.

Rugo

I suspect the Pontiac front clip is similar to the Nova, Camero, Cutlass clips. Done quite frequently and with good results. However, as easy as it is, the possibility of a hack job looms high. If you can’t personally inspect it or have a trusted 3rd party to inspect it you would be money ahead to pass on this one.

Thanks for the advice guys. I’ll see if I can find someone locally that’d be willing to check it out. It’s listed at gateway classic cars, which seems like a place that would know if something is done half [censored]. Then again a sale is a sale. Here’s the listing Incase someone wants to check it out, Some photos of underneath that might be telling?

http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/STL/7856/1951-Chevrolet-3100

In addition to the above do a Google on Gateway Classic Cars. You may be in for a surprise. Also check BBB information.🛠

Body and paint is horrific. I say this because someone actually tried to do body and paint work on it. I would be fine with honest original patina and farm dents, but not this hack job. The weld job of the too-wide Pontiac front suspension to the original frame looks sketchy to me from the pics.
$20,999?!
If I saw this truck in somebody's yard with a for sale sign on it, I would offer him $2,500 and hope he'd settle on no more than $3,000.
It would cost $10,000 to $15,000 to make this truck worth $20,999 in my opinion.
You can take the plunge on this one, but you will likely end up ankle deep in mud if you dive head first.
Carl

Here is a thread from another forum: Gateway Classic Cars

It's a long read. The short story is GCC doesn't know much about what they sell.

Buy with great caution.

I inspected a pretty good fake of a one-year-only Dodge Duster that looked good until I started doing a little research on the VIN number- - - -which was from a car two years newer than the only year that particular one was produced. It was at the Gateway Classic store in East St. Louis. The asking price was about twice what the car was worth, particularly when they were unable to provide documentation that the "340" engine in it wasn't actually a 318. They refused to remove the block hugger headers and the starter to give me access to the block casting number, and the machined pad at the front of the block had no numbers on it. I don't think the client from Australia who commissioned the inspection bought it.
Jerry

No need to inspect, the photos tell the story. This is a hack job, unsafe at any speed. run don't walk

Hi Skyler. Take the above responses with a grain of salt - many purists are predisposed to be critical of any modified Chevy truck. I have never seen a positive response to a "should I buy this" question. You could post a brand-new showroom fresh AD and some folks would find 20 reasons it was unsafe and say it's only worth $800. Just typical of forums, I guess.

It's a normal procedure to put later model GM front suspensions in these trucks; there are thousands of them on the highways today. With IFS, power disc brakes, power steering and a V8, your truck has the potential to drive much faster, safer and better than any original or restored AD truck. The previous owner put nearly 4000 miles on it so it's proven itself that far anyway. That being said, that Le Mans clip looks like it's poorly grafted to the original frame (photo 102). However it also looks like something a decent fabricator could safely rectify in an afternoon. The price is high, but that's typical for any dealer to start high to leave bargaining room for offers and trade-ins. If it speaks to your heart, make them a lowball offer; you'll savor every minute and every dollar spent fixing it up.

Thanks for all the good feedback guys. At the very least I know now not to offer near full asking price. I don't care about the pain job, I like the rough look. What I don't want is for it to be unsafe and for me to get ripped off.

[quote=Jay Zed]Hi Skyler. Take the above responses with a grain of salt - many purists are predisposed to be critical of any modified Chevy truck. I have never seen a positive response to a "should I buy this" question. You could post a brand-new showroom fresh AD and some folks would find 20 reasons it was unsafe and say it's only worth $800. Just typical of forums, I guess.

It's a normal procedure to put later model GM front suspensions in these trucks; there are thousands of them on the highways today. With IFS, power disc brakes, power steering and a V8, your truck has the potential to drive much faster, safer and better than any original or restored AD truck. The previous owner put nearly 4000 miles on it so it's proven itself that far anyway. That being said, that Le Mans clip looks like it's poorly grafted to the original frame (photo 102). However it also looks like something a decent fabricator could safely rectify in an afternoon. The price is high, but that's typical for any dealer to start high to leave bargaining room for offers and trade-ins. If it speaks to your heart, make them a lowball offer; you'll savor every minute and every dollar spent fixing it up. [/quote]

Thanks for your honest feedback here. That helps a lot. I've got some thinking to do.

With all respect to Jay Zed, the advise you got was not from the “purists” in our group. Only one of the responders was a period correct guy. All the rest are/were Hotrod guys. The truck is only worth about 1/4 of the asking price at best no matter how many miles Gateway says the owner drove it. Gateway’s reputation is well documented. Proceed with caution, we don’t want to come back at you with a big “I told you so”, in 6 months when your budget is blown.

Yeah, it feels it would be a bad idea to go with this based on the feedback here alone. I'm not seasoned enough to trust my own judgement and research can only go so far. So thanks for the advice.

Is there a better thread for these questions? I would hate to keep posting "how does this look" if there is a better place for it. The feedback here has already been more helpful than all my other research. Thanks again.

This forum is fine as long as you don’t get too system specific with your questions. The forum is monitored for content so don’t get upset if your question is moved to a better forum. Please take the time to read post #1 (it’s permanent so it’s always here) in this forum for some helpful information.🛠

I'm probably one of a very few guys here who have had direct dealings with Gateway Classics. I left there with the distinct impression I needed a long hot shower to wash off the sleaze. Used vehicle salesmen are virtually all cut from the same cloth, regardless of how much polish they try to apply to their stinky selves!
Jerry

I'm with the guys that said run away. That's based on the pics of the right side splice of the front end to the original frame. It appears to be welded only to the web of the original frame, with the flanges hanging out in mid-air (per pics 101 & 102). Yes, it could be repaired, but is the original frame still straight? How much would it cost if it were tweaked? My thought would be that the questions are just too big to risk finding out how much, and whether it's actually dangerous to drive.

There will be other trucks available.

If you watch Craigslist you can find a lot nicer ones for less money. Also, I have bought two vehicles going by pictures and was burned both times. One of the times though I did pay a "reputable" hot rod shop and appraiser to check it out as I was 3 states away. What a joke and waste of money that was. I will never buy one without looking at it in person or without someone that has more knowledge than me.

There's many forms of purists. In this case it was a euphemism; I was trying to avoid the term "sanctimonious snobs." If you think I'm wrong, then please point out one thread where they have actually had a positive response to someone's buying inquiry instead of shooting down their dreams. And I got that 4000 miles figure, not from Gateway, but off the truck's odometer.

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't buy that truck for even half the advertised price.

Hey Jay, you dug yourself a deep hole on your first post (purists reference).
Now you just fell in it with your latest post (sanctimonious snobs reference).
You need to put the shovel down and start hollering for someone to throw you a rope to help you get out.
I don't know Skyler Nelson, nor you, nor anyone from Gateway, but I do know a turd when I see one and that truck will not take a polish either.
We are all brothers in here, and brothers take care of brothers (including young Skyler). To suggest that this particular truck is worth more than $3,000 as is, should be considered as malicious misfeasance.
I have built and worked on these AD trucks from as-built, to full-on hot rod and everything in between. (So I guess that I am a sanctimonious purist snob hotrodding gearhead. That's OK by me. I have been called worse than that earlier this morning.)
This truck is a hot wet mess.
Carl

I would see how it drives. does it pull? wander? Is there any strange tire wear going on? Price wise, I'd WAG it at no more than $5000 tops, probably less depending on how much body work it needs.

Thank you Carl. Don’t have the desire to get into a word contest with Mr. Zed. I’m sure he means well even if a bit misguided.

...if what you do see is not enough to say WHOA then think of all you don't see! Maybe they used it in a bank robbery and the money is still in the truck....NOT.

It's a shame. It could have been a nice truck if someone hadn't butchered it. It might be OK if a guy wanted something to work on all the time & didn't care about driving it much. You would have to buy it fro about $ 5-6 thousand.
George

Cease fire. cease fire on Jay Zed .... He makes a valid point -- in our zeal to help, we *can* be sanctimonious snobs at times. I think this is a good opportunity to consider what he says and make sure the shoe doesn't fit.

But Jay, quite a few years back, now, we had a young man on here who was very excited about getting a tired Big Bolt from somewhere (the details are fuzzy) might have been grandpa's or something. Anyway, with some encouragement from us, he jumped in, took it for a joy ride one day before making sure the brakes were functional (we didn't know that part at the time -- neither did he). On a downgrade in a curve, on a dirt road and excessive speed is where he discovered they weren't. Today he is a quadraplegic from that wreck. For those of us who remember that (or other similar events in our past), we probably tend to the cautious side when presented with exuberance coupled with questionable fabrication or materiel state of readiness.

To whatever Carl says, allow me to add a hearty, yet brotherly "Harrumph."

Food for thought: In the future, when presented with an opportunity for graceful response (such as above), we would all do very well to stop, listen to the daisies, smell the bees (ask Carl about that ...) and ask ourselves ....


What would George say?

Thanks,
John

Thanks for the words of wisdom. The example you gave is a lesson in inspecting and testing any new vehicle before actually hitting the highway. A thorough pre-trip inspection should be done - it could happen with clunkers and 100-point concours vehicles alike.

I've got a Gateway fairly close to me, and they move lot's of vehicles. Enough so, that I visit once a month, and just about everything has moved from last trip. There is a large variation from excellent quality vintage vehicles to total crap. This truck is closer to the latter than the former from what I can see on the pic's. One thing is for sure, I would never buy a vehicle sight unseen from those guys without an independent inspection from a national reputable outfit. There are plenty out there. I've got one foot in the purist world and one in the hotrod world, so no problem with mod's. However in this case, just look at the quality (or lack thereof) of workmanship. It's terrible, and that's what you can see. Imagine what you can't. Just be patient, get lot's of practice looking and input from guys here, just like you did in this post. Craiglist is great, find the big car shows and swap meets near you and you will find a good match. I have seen lots of examples of guys on forums giving a thumbs up to new folks on purchases. They may quibble on price, but not to worry if the advice is 20% or so from asking. The situation here is much farther away. I didn't catch what part of the country you are in, but I've seen lot's of these old trucks that go for good prices (great prices relative to this Gateway deal) on my local Mecum auction. Of course there are some overpriced as well. Shop online ahead of the sale, then make the trip over, put your hands on it and snatch one up. Good luck.