The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 not starting after head rebuilt

Hello all
Having issues starting 235 after head rebuilt
Got one cough/start up but died
Adjusted the valves cold, .008” and .020”
Set timing with Hot Rod Lincoln’s method
Found the coil getting really hot, so changed out points and condenser
Checked compression, 110-125 psi
Checked voltage
12v on the right side of ballast, 6.85 on the left side ballast; around 4 bolts at the distributor
I already swapped batteries prior to this

Your help is appreciated

Check to see if you are getting spark at a spark plug. Remove one spark plug, ground the threaded portion of it to unpainted part of the engine block and turn over the engine looking for the spark.
What did you set the point gap at?

Hey Carl, I put one of those inline spark plug tester with light; verrry faint, can barely see it
Points gapped at .018” for new points
I put the same tester on my running 49’ Suburban and that light is bright when running

Did you try that tester on every spark plug?
Clutching-at-straws : you might have a bad ignition/plug wire/lead.

Clutching at more straws......... make sure your coil wire is pushed all the way in on both ends.🛠

I have not checked all the spark plugs, but I will

If you're getting 4 volts at the distributor with the points closed, the points are badly burned or the contacts are dirty. Either way, you'll get little or no spark. You should be getting either 12 volts at the side terminal of the distributor with the points open, or virtually zero with them closed.
Jerry

Jerry, should I remove the ballast resistor? I have a 12v system and 12v coil
One side of the ballast is 12 v and the other is 6v
Then 6v to the coil and 4v to the distributor
The points are new, gapped to .018”

Thanks

Another straw................ did you clean off the point faces before you installed them?

No straw there. My bet is that he has the dreaded New Points Containment Syndrome. I clean new points before I install them due to this common problem these days.

Burnish, no

Try sliding a piece of ordinary copy paper between the points (in closed position) a few times...works wonders.

Burnished the points reconnected the plug wire and coil wire, strong spark now all cylinders but still no start 😔

OK, now that you have spark, it's time to set the timing. Be sure the cylinder that's on the compression stroke is getting the spark. Pull the #1 spark plug and have a helper tap the starter a little at a time while you hold your thumb over the plug hole. When compression blows your thumb out of the hole the distributor rotor should be pointing at that plug wire. If it isn't, rearrange the plug wires.
#1 can be any position on the cap, as long as the rest of the wires follow the firing order- - -1-5-3-6-2-4 clockwise to match the rotor rotation.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry will try
Update tomorrow

A trick I used to get my 216 running after R&R'ing the head was spray gas down the carb while cranking with the key on and the idle set high (but not WOT).
Make sure you have your timing set static as HRM indicated to lessen the chance of a back fire.

I use an old spray bottle and fill it with gas when needed. I used to have an old 48 TE20 tractor that I had to start with this method when the temps dropped below 20.

Ether and other starting fluids are the bane of ICE's.......

If tdc has your rotor pointing toward No. 1 plug wire and you still cant get it to run, do a quick compression test on all of the cylinders.

TDC happens twice- - - -once on compression and again on overlap. Firing the plug at the valve overlap point results in a "no start" condition. Be SURE you have compression when the plug fires.
Jerry

Tried again tonight
Confirmed the #1 plug wire position is correct
Compression stroke with thumb blowing off at #1
Strong spark, not even a cough of starting
Now intake is getting flooded with fuel

if Your compression is still 125 or so, spark may still be your issue. Run another compression check just to be sure.

Change the spark plugs, even if they're new. Once plugs get fuel-soaked, it's possible they can leak voltage away down the insulator when under compression pressure without jumping the gap. I've seen it happen several times.
Jerry

Strong spark - check.
Fuel - check
compression - ?

Before you do any major surgery, run a compression check on ALL cyls.

Remove all plugs and spin the engine to clear the cyl's of excess fuel then run the compression check.
These Stovebolts will start and run on 4 cyl's but highly unlikely on just 3.
You may find a couple valves that aren't closing, even after adjusting them previously, BTDT. check, recheck and recheck again but a compression check that only takes 5 minutes or so can narrow down cyl's with problems.

Good luck
Dave

Compression check done all cylinders over 110 and as high as 125

This thread is beginning to sound similar to someone else's "wont run" issue not long in the past. I tried to search for the thread but was unsuccessful... I believe the culprit was at the ignition switch and/or one of the ignition switch wires. Does anyone else recall? Keep up the efforts, you will eventually succeed.

So you apparently have fuel, and you have reconfirmed you have compression. So now you are back to ignition. Frankly, I would probably err on the side of caution and install a condenser and points only because they are inexpensive. If you can clean the plugs with a spark plug cleaner, I would go ahead and do that, check the gap. If not, put a new set of plugs in as above recommended. Just curious, what plugs are you using? The plugs need to be clean and dry in order to fire. You will have to take a look at your coil next. Early chevys used a firewall ballast resistor, 3 ohms maybe, to knock the voltage down so the points would not pit up. The coil did not have any resistance built in. The thing is that some coils are manufactured with the 3 ohms built in. You don't need the resistor with that kind of coil so if you are using one with that kind of coil you are at like 6 ohms. Might be an issue, you will have to check the coil. You should also check and clean all of the connections, including at the distributor.

If you remove the nut, wire and little metal cover on the side of the plastic distributor bushing, look in and you will see a ring slot nut. When you replace the points, you loosen this ring slot nut to remove and install new points. It can get pretty cruddy and corroded in there so take it all apart and clean it good so all nice clean contacts. After you install and adjust the new points and condenser, but before you reconnect the little coil wire, use a multimeter and confirm that the points are actually breaking the circuit when they open and close.

Head to the cap and look inside for cracks, badly pitted contacts, dirt, grease. Pull each of the wires and the center coil wire and inspect the ends of the wires and the cap tower contacts for each cylinder. If messed up, just replace. Same with the wires, they need to be clean and no cracking, don't let them lay on each other directly. Causes cross fire. These wires originally came with a little triangle wire separator to keep them apart.

If you have spark at the right time, fuel, compression and air, it will run . Unless it had a plugged exhaust?

I'm stuck on the spark at the right time as being a strong contender so maybe go back to Hotrods recommendation on timing. Also, regarding the coil and ballast resistor discussion. You could "jump" around the ballast resistor to see if 12v on the coil helped the spark but since you said it has good spark now, I'm leaning towards the timing issue. Question, the engine was running before you pulled the head, right? So when you rebuilt the head did you remove , disconnect or replace anything within the ignition or fuel system?

Did you remember to put the distributor rotor in? Don't ask me how I know to ask a question like that!
Jerry

Yes!!! 😉

The truck was running good before the head removal
Had a weird overheat gremlin that would go away after turning off the truck and immediately re-starting
Also vacuum advance wasnt moving (old) so I replaced it
The performance of the truck degraded from there and took it to a shop since I could not work on it for more than a few minutes at at time (recovering from heel bone break and surgery)
The shop said they got it running but had pressure in the head so warped or blown HG
Was told to tow home
That’s where we stand now
Newly rebuilt head but no start
I swear this truck was easier to get going after sitting for 20+ years
At least it would cough and sputter when getting it going

I am in a similar situation with my 216, and am still working out the latest gremlins now after several years of issues. If you put on a new vacuum advance, it may be the distributor installation. Just a guess. I have also never heard of the term pressure in the head. What is that and how did they determine that is a problem? I am glad you towed it home, I hope you bid this guys a good by and make sure that they see no more of your business. Only thing I could suggest at this point, is check for distributor timing/ proper installation, vacuum leaks and do a compression check to see if everything is OK.

Spark - check
Fuel - check
compression - check
You have all the required basics.

Static timing - set by HRM's specs - check
valves adj'ed - check
You have the required static setups.

You may have answered the follow but I'll throw it out anyways.
Have you verified spark to EVERY plug? My 216 has started and run on 4 cyls but not 3. Starts right up on all 6 firing.
Verified correct fireing order? The rotor spins CW to cyl's 1-5-3-6-2-4
Inside the dist cap dry?
Known good rotor button?
Are the plugs clean and dry?
Is the carb tightned down properly?
Is the manifold vacuum port plugged or connected to the vacuum wipers? Plug it for testing.
Is the choke closed when cranking?
Is the idle set to high with the choke closed while cranking? Set it to atleast half wide open throttle if not higher.
You say theres puddles of fuel under carb in intake. Puddled fuel will not pull into the cyl's as well as when it's atomized. Dry out that area under the carb and use a spray bottle filled with gas to get some atomized fuel sprayed into the carb while cranking.

With the good compression you have and the basics present it should fire off.
Good luck
Dave

Firing order correct
Cap is dry
Fairly new rotor and cap
Plugs may be fuel soaked
Carb tightened down
Manifold port has new ball valve, will connect vacuum gauge to make sure not leaking past
Choke not connected but manually actuated by hand when trying to start
Idle not set to high
Will need to remove carb and dry out fuel, then dry the spray bottle

No need to remove the carburetor. Just hold the throttle open and insert your air hose for a few minutes. 🛠

Based on a good friend of mine receiving 3rd degree burns on most of his body from doing what you are suggesting, I must disagree with anyone using this method. A backfire under those circumstances is exactly what went wrong for my friend.

Fix the choke cable. It is not likely causing your issue, but it will be much easier to start once you figure out what IS wrong.

1) You have compression. Your timing gears are not bad.
2) You have spark. It needs to be at the right time.
3) You have gas. You may have bad gas.

That's all there is to it.
Focus on each one of these.

The carb let’s out more of a drop of fuel
Should it be more of a mist or spray?

Hence the statement to "make sure you have your timing set static as HRM indicated to lessen the chance of a back fire"...
Ether will do the same plus ruin rings and/or bend/break a rod. If one has to use a starting aid atomized fuel is the better choice.

A pic of a carb feeding fuel. A 1bbl

Incorrect timing is not the only cause of a backfire.

Ok getting ready to throw in the towel... not sure where to go yet and even having someone help
All the usual checks that everyone has suggested been done
Even put a little fuel in each cylinder and no start
The only things I’m thinking
Leak at the intake to head? It has a new gasket and the intake rings; is anyone putting permatex? But to counter, I have highly vacuum when placing hand over carb
Head grounded.. with the head gasket installed with permatex, did I loose my ground connection?? But we are getting spark at each plug

Help!!! Any one in so-cal???