The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Wrong Lifters installed??

Engine Casting # 3701481
Casting date G 20 3
G July
20 Day of month
3 Year 1953

Head Casting # 3836848
Head Casting date D 7 9
D April
7 Day of month
9 Year 1959

Serial# LAS394655
L Year — 1953
A Series — 2100/2400 (210/Belair) 235 w/PowerGlide & Pwr Steering
S Plant — Tonawanda, NY

I’ve torn the engine down and I’m fairly confident I have a
’53 235 full pressure with a ’59 head. (engine also has “Capt’s Bars" & 18 head bolts).

But what’s “throwing me a curve” is this engine has Solid Lifters…?? (see attached photo)
From what everyone says (and I’ve read), it should have Hydraulics.

Question: Are the Lifters interchangeable? Could someone (at some point)
have changed them out....??

I am quite sure that if you look down the lifter bores in the block, you will see half way down the bore, the block is drilled to supply oil to hydraulic lifters.
There is no problem installing solid lifters in any block.
That milk can style lifter would also have needed shorter push rods when they were installed.

As long as the cam is ground for soild lifters you are ok IMHO. I just recently went from hydraulic to solids had the cam reground by delta cams, Tacoma, Wa. I never had luck with the hydraulic lifters they were noisey, far more noisey than my solid valve train now. It is like a sewing machine, quiet but mechanical sounding, really music if you ask me.

As asked in the first post:
"Question: Are the Lifters interchangeable? "

If you have a 235 hydraulic lifter cam, should you avoid using solid lifters with it?

Yes
No
Maybe

Thanks guys,

Dave,
There are oil passages drilled, so looks like this eng was original Hydraulics.
Do you know what length Push Rods for the (now) Solids? (just to confirm I have the right length)

sstock,
I'm OK/Good with Solids, and I suspect the Cam matches Lifters because that's what was in there,
but how would I know if the cam was in fact ground for Solids, and if it were not...would that be a problem?

Thanks again, Jim

Hydraulic lifter cams have a different lobe profile, because the slow lift rate "acceleration ramp" that takes up the clearance on a hydraulic lifter shaft is very short- - - -like less than .005" instead of 10 or more like a solid lifter shaft. When hydraulics are run against a solid lifter cam, the effective result is a longer duration where the valve is open slightly, possibly creating a little idle roughness. It doesn't really enhance performance, but it does make the engine hard to tune. I recently degreed a new solid lifter cam ground for a 261 engine, and the acceleration ramps exactly matched the valve adjustment specifications provided by the cam grinder. You would need a degree wheel, a dial indicator, and some experience setting up racing engines to interpret the measurements you record to determine if you're actually running a solid lifter cam.

Putting solid lifters on a hydraulic cam is a disaster waiting to happen, as the lobes are not designed for solid lifter clearances and the engine will be noisy and the cam and lifters will wear out rapidly. Clearance would have to be run at about .005" or less on both intake and exhaust lobes, and the valves would have to be adjusted very often.
Jerry

"Putting solid lifters on a hydraulic cam is a disaster waiting to happen, as the lobes are not designed for solid lifter clearances and the engine will be noisy and the cam and lifters will wear out rapidly. Clearance would have to be run at about .005" or less on both intake and exhaust lobes, and the valves would have to be adjusted very often.

Jerry"

Thank you, Jerry

I am ignorant: why would the valves lash have to be adjusted very often?

The very small clearance doesn't stay in adjustment very well, and the cam and the bottom of the lifter has a tendency to wear pretty quickly and increase the clearance. It's just not designed to have any clearance at all, as the "shock absorber" action of a hydraulic keeps the lifter in contact with the cam at all times. If you try to adjust for zero clearance with a solid lifter on a hydraulic shaft, the valves burn because of pushrod and valve stem expansion as the engine gets hot, which pushes the valve off the seat.
Jerry

1941-54 235 with solid lifters will be 10-37/64"
1950-54 hydraulics are 11-1/4"

Thanks Dave,
Thanks Jerry,
very informative.

Amen, as usual

Thanks to both

UPDATE:

OK, I've confirmed I have the correct Pushrods (10-37/64").
That's good that they thought enough to change to correct pushrods for the "Solids" but I'm wondering if they
went through the added expense & time to change the Cam?
I wished it were easier to tell/confirm.

What would you suggest?
1. have someone (not me) check it for proper ground (for Solids).
2. If Hydraulic, grind it to proper specs (if possible).
3. jus buy a new Cam.

$$ are a factor....care to guess what each should/would cost...just "ballpark"? nothing to hold you too :-)

This Forum is a tremendous help, it would be extremely tough without y'all,
hopefully at some point, I'll be able answer posts, rather than create them.
Thanks for all the help

Jim

With basic tools you should be able to measure cam lift.
Measuring at the lifter, hydraulic cams will have equal lift on both intake and exhaust.
Solid lifter cams will have slightly more lift on the exhaust lifter.

The trick to checking a cam is monitoring the rate of lift, which requires a degree wheel mounted to the crankshaft and synchronized to top dead center of the piston. A solid lifter cam has a fairly long area of gradual lift at the beginning of the lobe to slowly take up the clearance before beginning the valve lift. This minimizes the shock effect of transitioning from the round base circle of the cam lobe to the part of the lobe that actually lifts the valve. On closing, there's also an area which slows the valve down before it contacts the seat to keep it from battering the seat, then the clearance is slowly re-established. Hydraulic cams have a radically different lobe profile because the lifter stays in contact with the cam all the time.

If you decide to purchase a cam you know is for solid lifters, the Elgin E-293S cam that we put into John's 261 is the same grind as the "Corvette" 6-cylinder solid lifter cam. It cost around $115.00 from my engine parts supplier in Nashville. It's currently in production by Elgin Industries and it's somewhat less expensive than the same cam that offered for sale by some of the resto-ripoff guys. A new cam also requires new lifters, BTW.

There's a set of new milk can lifters on Ebay today for $187.00, but better pricing is probably available with some careful shopping.

http://catalog.elginind.com/elgin/

Jerry

This engine will have the early small journal cam, used until mid 1954.
The 261 style will not fit without turning down the journals.

OOPS! I missed that little detail! Will the "261" cam lobes fit through the smaller bearings in the early block? A good machinist with an accurate lathe and a tool post grinder wouldn't have much trouble converting that cam, since small journal new or reground cams are getting pretty scarce due to a shortage of cores to regrind.
Jerry

In 1953, the Corvette came with a full pressure 235, using solid lifters and a Powerglide.

Yes. And, it looks like this is a 1953 car 235 (high pressure block) from a Powerglide equipped car (non-Corvette). It would have come from the factory with hydraulic lifters.

I noticed the '53 Corvette shares the same Casting # as mine, what would the (3) Letters in the Serial # look like?

jkvincent,

What is your 235's three letter prefix? LAS (car 235 with Powerglide and hydraulic lifters)

LAY is the 1953 Corvette 235 Engine Serial Number preface (see below)
Powerglide and mechanical lifters

What are your block and head casting codes?

thanks Tim,
Scroll up to my original post for all of my eng information.

Jim
I love this forum

Lifters
Hyd ----All rise(s) should be equal
Solids---Exhaust should have more rise

Because of the way I was using the Caliper (see photo),
a lower number would indicate a higher rise.
Does that make sense…or did I screw up??

Granted, I know these numbers aren’t “scientific”
but I’m relatively comfortable I have a Solid lifter Cam.

Front to Back
Cyl 1
i -.214
E -.206 higher rise
Cyl 2
E -.208 higher rise
i -.217
Cyl 3
i -.219
E -.195 higher rise
Cyl 4
E -.205 higher rise
i -.222
Cyl 5
i -.219
E -.203 higher rise
Cyl 6
E -.209 ??
i -.199

I trying to not replace the Cam, ......What do you think??
Thanks, Jim

The different lift heights on the intake lobes tells me the cam is wearing out. Run it until one of more of them goes seriously flat, then replace the cam and lifters, and hope the metallic debris the wear is creating doesn't trash the rest of the engine.
Jerry