The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Here's That Gray Engine paint again!

Well I have spent literally days searching, and printing all the articles here on the forum about engine paint and decided on Chevy’s of the 40’s for the paint. I ordered a couple of rattle cans of their gray paint for the AD 216 and it arrived today. Ended up costing $20 a can, sure a lot more expensive than Rustolium at $3.95 for a LARGE can. From all the discussion here I thought I was going to get a blue/gray paint, but when I sprayed a sample today it is just plane charcoal gray, very dark, almost black, not even a hint of any blue in it. I feel I could have gotten this from any hardware store in the area. I have seen pictures of some of you guys restorations and the paint appeared much lighter gray. Any Comments????
Also ordered quart of Mariner Blue and Champaign interior paint from Carter and they are both back ordered as are the ¾ ton hubcaps.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
It is very dark. Most are used to the lighter color sold by some vendors, but I had some matched to an NOS timing cover I had and it's very dark. I'll try and dig up the can to get the number from it. I do know the color was called Dark Gray in PPG DCC single stage urethane.

Bob

Thanks Bob, I'm going to get the VC cleaned up this week end and will post a picture of it, I'd like to get some comments on the color match.
I'd like to have the PPG DCC number if you can find it.
Man, I've been going nuts trying to figure out the interior paint. There must have been a hundred discussions on the subject, and as many different suggestions, I printed them all out but have not had the time to read through them.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
You've got to keep in mind that Chevy had several assembly plants going over the time span the trucks were built, so exact color matches for everything are near impossible. I'd be real surprised if the interior paint, exterior paint, etc, that was used say at Norwood Ohio in 1951 would be an exact match to what was used in Kansas City in 1949. Plus they were sprayed by hand, so maybe Joe put a little more paint on in places than Jim. Although it's hard to tell sometimes because of fading, etc, the interior color of my '50 appears a lot darker then the interior of my '51 did. If someone went to a dealer today and saw a new vehicle with the factory finish these trucks had when new, they'd probably gag. I used Jim Carter's interior paint on my '51 and was satisfied with it. It was a PPG enamel in their industrial line.
Something to keep in mind if you need hardware store paint, places like Menard's can custom mix Rustoleum if you bring in a color sample. I've done it and you can't beat the price.

Bob

I have to agree with Bob's opinion of different colors from different plants. I found traces of blue-gray on my kansas City-assembled truck engine, but I recently found an NOS valve cover cap at a swap meet, still in the original box, so not faded, and it is very dark gray, with no trace of blue.

Denny,

I used the same paint from Chevs of the 40s and had the same reaction when I painted my engine. "wow, that's much darker than all the pictures I've seen of other engines." So, I took a picture to post and it came out as light as everyone elses in the picture. Check out my webshots for a picture of it. I'm very happy how mine turned out.

RedGreen

Well if it was that dark originally, then that would account for the, what looks like black traces of paint that are left on the engine tin.
Well, anyway, for now, charcoal gray it is!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, the Filling Station in Lebenon OR. Has the correct color for you engine. They spent alot of time and a whole load of Nickles to get the right match. This color is also what is recomended by the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America (VCCA) for restoration of early engines.

www.fillingstation.com

Well, a little to late there, 41 guy. I already got forty bucks tied up in a couple of rattle cans from Chevy's of the 40's. This, on some other forum member’s testimonials as to accuracy of THEIR paint formula.
I gotta spend some time over there at VCCA and see what they have to say.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

definatly not blue, unless on early vettes etc,my original truck has more mid grey,not dark or charcoal, battleship grey nearest i can think of

We’re not talkin’ blue here, (1950) just the slightest hint of blue. The paint on the intake manifold, under the horn is about the only spot on the whole engine that looks untouched, it was covered with oil and dirt from VC leakage and probably never got the full brunt of the gunk jobs, (fire department, ya know!). It is a much lighter gray than the new paint, and does seem to have a little blue tint to it. Is it possible that the engine was one color and the intake was a different color? I don’t think the engine has ever been down for any reason, at least that’s what the previous caretakers have indicated that to me. It was bought new by the town of Gray, IA and I’ve talked to some of the guys that maintained it from the 80’s up till it was sold in ’04.
I have yet to get around to painting the VC with the Aerosol that I got from Chevy of the 40’s and getting it out in the sunlight. I just keep looking at the sample I sprayed on a piece of paper and thinking, darn, that’s solid charcoal gray. One other thing is the smell, this stuff smells like DDT for those of you that can remember what that was like. I’ve never used paint with an odor like that.
Apparently there is just as much disagreement over at the VCCA about engine color (hue) because there are just as many different vendor recommendations and opinions there also.
Once again, I think I’m gonna fall back on what Bob Adler has found, now, all I have to do is find out, what Bob Adler has found!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
Here's the PPG # I had mixed, DCC 36304, Dark Gray. I thought the same thing when I first got the paint, looks awfully dark. But once you spray the entire assembly and get it in the sun it does "lighten up" a bit. Just tricks the eyes play on you. Same thing goes for the chips in those paint books, once you see the painted vehicle, it doesn't usually look close to the same shade as the chip. Like I've said before, as far as the gray, you're talking a time span of about 30 years that Chevy used that color, so I don't think you'll find a definitive, this is exact, answer. I do know that all the NOS engine parts I've come across are a dark shade of gray, much darker than the Bill Hirsch paint.
As far as what's painted, it helps to have a sort of "manufacturing plant mentality". The question comes up often and I think back to the years I spent working at a Caterpillar plant. Usually everything that can be assembled before the trip through the paint booth is. As far as the engines, about the only things that aren't painted gray are the small bolt on items, distributor, generator, starter, carb, fan blade, and draft tube. All the manifolds, bellhousing, gasket edges, valve cover acorn nuts, oil filler cap, and even the adjusting bracket for the generator since it's bolted on with one of the water pump bolts, were gray. Manufactures aren't into "detail painting".

Bob

Well Bob, I'm gonna pick up a qt. of PPG DCC #36304, Dark Gray. I'm not real convinced that the stuff I got from Chevy 40's is right.I'm alreaddy $40 into the rattle cans from them I might as well get in a little deeper, think $50 will cover a qt. of DCC?
Besides, I just don't want the engine black, and that's about how dark their paint is. That old 216 with all the places for it to vent oul is gonna get black all to soon anyway.
It really supprises me that there is so little paint left on this engine, just tiny specks here and there, and it's about impossable to tell if it's paint or old grease/oil. Next year when I tear it down to the frame, I'm gonna go through the engine. I think your right bout painting the whole thing assembled, i.e. gaskets and all then add the black from the bolt on's.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL
p.s. Where did you work at CAT, in Aurora??

Denny,
$50 will probably be pretty close for the paint. Add about another $30 for hardener and $15 for reducer. That # is Single Stage Urethane. Could get their Omni MAE acrylic enamel a lot cheaper.
You probably wouldn't paint your mailbox with the old enamel the factory used then. That and the fact that the cleaning and prep done at the time wasn't all that great meant the old paint didn't last long, just long enough to get it to the customer.

Bob

p.s. No, I worked at Joliet. Put 13 years in before I tired of getting laid off all the time. My Dad put in 35 and most of his friends worked there so I kind of grew up with the place. They all had "yellow blood".

Denny,

I purchased a quart of engine grey from Jim Carter's and should be painting in the next few days. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Don

Good deal Don, I'll hold off doing anything till I hear bout your results, kind of like letting you be the Ginny pig. I got about a dozen irons in the fire on this truck so there are plenty of other things to do. In the mean time I’m gonna shoot some sheet metal samples just to see how they look.
Bob, I’m gonna have to disagree with ya on the original paint. The cowl on mine looks like the day it came out of the factory. Now the paint that was exposed to the elements, well, that’s another story. I really think that if it had been waxed and kept indoors, it would have been in good shape also. I’m planning on painting it with acrylic enamel again. I have a plane I built 25 years ago that has never seen a drop of rain and is kept in a closed hanger with no windows, therefore no sun light and the lacquer is as good today as the day I painted her.
Now mind you, I’m not saying that the paint back then was as good as the fancy stuff that’s around today, just that its not as bad as people make it out to be. I don’t think that a 1922 Chevy would look very good with a 2k system on it. I want the original look to this truck.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, as for the Champaign interior color, I purchased a quart from Classic Parts (Chevy Duty) and sprayed myself and it turned out real nice. The color is perfect for my truck. Check my Webshots, page 3 for a look at the interior.

Jon, I just received my order from Jim Carter, got a quart of the interior and I'm trying a quart of their exterior enamals, just to see how well they match. I looked at your webshots, looks good hard to tell color on the computer though.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I've followed the posting for quite a while about interior colors for AD's. I think the name Bob Alder comes up every now and then.
A great while back I wrote down the PPG paint codes for the interior. They were PPG DDL3613 and PPG DCC5558. One is a single stage and the other is a two-stage. Flatner would have to be used on a single stage to achieve the original finish.
Well the body and paint guy i'm using just got done with the interior. And i'm confused because the paint looks like a dark copper=brown small metallic finish. Not at all what I expected. If I knew how to post a picture here, I would.
If there is someone who can identify the color by looking at, I can send the pics via email.(but i'll need an address w/ the Picasa program i've got)
Thanks ahead of time

Denny,

I must apoligize as the engine has not yet been painted; Hopefully, it will happen this week. As soon as its sprayed out I'll try to put up some pics on one of the photo sites. Also, if you like, I will send you a sample.

Don

Thanks for the offer Don, no need to send a sample, but I would like to see the engine after you get it painted.
By the way, did the paint you got from JC say to "Use with ALK-201 Enhancer"? I bought a qt. each of interior and Marina Blue and both say to use it, what is it anyway? I don't see it listed in the JC catalog.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Awww shuckers, guys, thanks for your advice, but, your to late! I made it on down to the PPG dealer Saturday morning and he beat you to it! Seems the AD interior/exterior paint that Jim Carter is selling is a ALK-200/ALK-201 CPC system from PPG, his tint formula of course. It would have been nice if he had packaged a little note of directions in with the paint. But then again maybe he is not used to dealing with back yard mechanics like me.
The PPG man says that the ALK-200 can be used straight and doesn’t need the ALK-201 enhancer. He claims that it will simply give it a little more gloss, which I don’t want for the interior. He also says that the vendor may have added a flattener to it, but just incase he didn’t, use DX-10 flattener or just add a little lacquer thinner, that will flatten it out also.
Now on the other hand, the Marina Blue exterior paint will no doubt benefit from adding the ALK-201 enhancer.
Thought this save some steps for anyone that might be going through the same exercise that I am.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,

The quart of Engine Grey I received only had Spanish writing on the can. Since I was usually reading surfing magazines during High School Spanish classes, I haven't a clue if recommends using an enhancer or not.

Don

I added the 201 to Jim Carters paint and didn't notice any increase in gloss. It still came out a satin finish. It's a very small mount of hardener, about 15 to 1. Here's the link to PPG's P sheet. Click on ALK200.

http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmFindProduct.asp

Bob

Been there done that already Bob, been studying up on their systems, I figured if I start now, by next summer I should have a handle on their paints. My PPG guy in Aurora also gave me a graduate and even marked the ratio on it with a marker.
If you used the ALK-201 enhancer and it still wasn’t glossy then it’s obvious that JC had them add the DX-10 flattening agent to the mix on the interior paints.

Gracias Don, yo encontré el samething. They had the English part folded under the label and the Spanish exposed on both of the cans that I got.

One thing that I have always been aware of is that the factory never uses a primer on the interior surfaces. I’m curious if the CPC will bond to clean prepped metal with out a primer? I really don’t want a lot of build on the garnish or any other part of the interior as far as that goes. Bulletin CPC-3 for ALK-200/ALK-201 under Surface Preparation, says the performance properties Direct to Properly Treated Substrate is very good. I take that to mean that if I used metal prep on the bare metal that I can top coat it with out a primer, does that sound correct?
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,

Finally got around to spraying the Jim Carter\'s Chevy Grey Paint

I'm sure you've moved on to other things by now but perhaps this photo will help others with the color from Carter's

I just can't kill this subject no matter how hard I try!!!
Red, your gray looks a lot like mine not a trace of blue in the mix, but yours does look lighter no matter what the light.

Don, that gray is much closer to what I found on the VC after scrubbing it down in the parts cleaner. There was some of the color left on the side of the cover from mine and it definitely looks to be quite a bit lighter than the Chevy of the 40's paint, and it also has a slight blue cast to it.

Bob, I just taint' been able to talk my self into gathering up a qt. of the PPG system numbers that you posted. But, when I get caught up with things I still want to try some. You don't have a good well lit sample of the color that you could post for us by chance?

Now, I would like to see an example of what The Filling Station conceders to be the original engine color for a '50, 216, you don't have an example that you can share with us, do you 41chevy???
There are some big differences when they are put side by side. I'll get it right, sooner or later!!!!! Took me a couple of months with the flaring tools, but I got that right, every time, and I do mean every time!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I just can't kill this subject no matter how hard I try!!!
Red, your gray looks a lot like mine not a trace of blue in the mix, but yours does look lighter no matter what the light.

Don, that gray is much closer to what I found on the VC after scrubbing it down in the parts cleaner. There was some of the color left on the side of the cover from mine and it definitely looks to be quite a bit lighter than the Chevy of the 40's paint, and it also has a slight blue cast to it.

Bob, I just taint' been able to talk my self into gathering up a qt. of the PPG system numbers that you posted. But, when I get caught up with things I still want to try some. You don't have a good well lit sample of the color that you could post for us by chance?

Now, I would like to see an example of what The Filling Station conceders to be the original engine color for a '50, 216, you don't have an example that you can share with us, do you 41chevy???
There are some big differences when they are put side by side. I'll get it right, sooner or later!!!!! Took me a couple of months with the flaring tools, but I got that right, every time, and I do mean every time!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I also used the Jim Carter's Gray Engine Paint and I love it. I have seen engines painted with the Filling Station paint and they look very good too. Here is a picture of my engine painted with the Jim Carter's paint.

I believe this darker gray is correct. And in the right light it has a bluish tint to it but its not blue/gray by any stretch - its dark GRAY!

Interesting, I have had a lot of comments on the color from the younger folks who have never seen an engine painted in this color before. With engines now being painted black, in a way we are sort of returning full circle.

Thanks Jim, Your engine color is closer to the shade of chips that I found on the valve cover when I scrubbed off the 57 years of crud off my 3604. As Bob noted earlier, depending on where the engine was built and what the paint of the day was, there does appear that differnt shades were used, ranging from nearly black charcoal gray to light blue/gray. Because of this I don't see how the VCCA can say one way or the other what shade is correct. If a 1950 216 is any shade of gray then it is correct for the period. If it's red or orange or green or blue, then it is not correct.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny - Here is a shot of the beige hammertone from JC's. I had to purchase two additional quarts as my painter Bob worked very hard to prevent the first two from developing the "fisheye" look. Note that the orange artifacts are just reflections caused by the camera flash.