The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Criteria for Big Bolt for Camper Build

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, and on the lookout for a classic Big Bolt as the foundation for a Gypsy-style truck mounted camper (I just submitted a WTB post re: this). My wife (the primary driver for this) is in love with the Art Deco GMC's; I am thinking 1.5 ton flatbed, with a bed length of 10' - 12'. Since she is the driver, and she expects to do interstate travel, I am expecting to look at driveline upgrades for drivability. Any specific suggestions on this project, considering the limitations I list? Thanks!

Brad

Hi Brad, welcome to the site! Sounds like a fun project! I'm not familiar with that particular era of trucks but I am sure someone will coma along with some suggestions and more discussion for you!

I think first you might want to see if a gasser or Diesel engine will work best for you keeping fuel mileage and initial cost in mind. Depends on long term goals like use per year, mountains vs. plains driving, short trips vs. long, Auto or manual trans. Hope you get the idea.

I sometimes it is easier to put an Art Deco(in your situation) cab and bed on a modern frame and chassis, retain engine, power steering, brakes, dealer service while on the road, modern electrics, etc, or modify an AD truck. Part of this is determined by how much work you can do, and how skilled you are.

Ed

With your wife as the primary driver I would stay with Ed's suggestion and stay far away from trying to use any type of stock configuration. Much safer at Interstate speeds.

1 ton flat beds come with an 8' x 10' bed.
1.5 LWB and 2 tons will have an 8' x 13.5' bed.
If you can find a 46 LWB school bus the have about 195"
wheel base.

Thing with these trucks is that they ride hard, noisy, poor
gas mileage, cruising speed about 40 to 45 MPH. So unless
these things are ok to your wife she may not find using
one of those Art Deco's practical.

I have to admit that I have thought about how much fun it
would be to turn an old truck into an RV and travel across
the country.

Though the Art Deco's are one beautiful looking truck.
Yesterday, Forest Gump was on TV and when he gets on the
school bus for the first time is was an Art Deco Chevrolet
school bus. Jeffrey

I am five + years into converting a '46 school bus into a mini RV. It is a BIG undertaking. The original engine will never make enough power (I installed a Cummins 4BT)...the tranny and rear end will never make anything close to highway speed (I now have an Allison 6 speed and Dana 80 rear axle)...the brakes will never stop anything more than stock speed and loading (I now have four wheel disk brakes).

As you can imagine, none of this was cheap or done overnight. Don't get me wrong...it can be done. Just not easily.

If you want a "classic" look and modern driveline, consider transplanting an older body onto a new chassis. A friend has a '35 Chevy bus body on an Isuzu NPR chassis that came with all the modern conveniences listed above. Pretty sweet combo that he drives all over the country.

Just my dos centavos.

Guys, what great help your replies are! Fortunately my SIL has years of experience as a restoration mechanic, and we will be relying on his guidance and skills for many crucial steps in this process. So now Job One is the search for a suitable cab - that hones our focus in a very helpful way. As I see it, once we have a suitable cab we can figure out the options for a donor chassis. The search is on! Thanks!

Brad

Just as an afterthought, you might consider buying and older low mileage Motorhome and scrap out the body. This gives you a chassis already set up for your Motorhome project. Then locate a Art Deco Cab Over and swap the cab onto the motorhome chassis. You can salvage many of the motorhome components to use on yours. Just an idea.

In any case it sounds like a whole lot of work and to do it right won't be cheap.

Modifying trucks takes time, a good plan, and ability to see/understand all the pieces and parts and how they might interact and interfere, then plenty of problem solving.

Are you already handy and capable of doing the necessary work?
Can you keep the truck mostly stockish and OK with driving slower? Or does it need to be a new vehicle and look old, or what compromise in between?

My dos centavos.. Easy to fall in love with the Art Deco series, beautiful trucks. That said, there is not much room in the cab. If you two are the primary riders , have weight proportional to height and are 5'10" and under I say go for it. One of the reasons I have travelled in an Advanced Design cab over 100,000 miles, @ 5' 11" is that an AD cab has much more leg room than an Art Deco cab.

Can you do it, certainly! Will you be comfortable? Have you ever sat in an Art Deco cab? Changing out the Art Deco bench seat to comfy late model bucket seats?

As others have stated power train and the ability of stopping all that inertia from interstate speed to emergency braking necessitates major modification.

I know you are intelligent enough to tackle the problem...for goodness sakes you live on The Finger Lakes, one of the most beautiful areas of the country!

Take a good look at Grigg's projects above, it will give you a real flavor of what you will be getting into modification-wise and time-wise.

Much food for thought! The pooled wisdom of experience is something I put a lot of value on, and thank you guys for sharing. I am trying to give wings to my wife's dream/fantasy, and now have to judge the reality of the concept. Thanks!

https://images.craigslist.org/00I0I_2ddjKGpN6AL_600x450.jpg

Going to look at this beauty today. 1941 GMC 1.5 ton dually (one set of wheels off) former fire truck; it was in process of restoration when the dude died. By description it looks like it will suit our needs; if we score we'll get it mechanically functional, build the gypsy camper (that will take a couple years!) and use it for limited distance runs. In the future we'll evaluate a possible chassis swap.

Brad,

Nice truck. The original engine bay will hold a GMC 302 6 cyl. engine in place of the 228 or whatever is in there now, provide plenty of power. Engine displacement displayed as initial numbers of engine SN, i. e. 302xxxx, stamped on right side near starter. A more modern 292 Chevy 6 will also fit in there lengthwise with only a relocated right engine mount. Update with a modern 4 or 5 speed trans.

Since it was a fire truck, it might already have thicker radiator, although 5 psi max. You can put modern axles, with modern brakes and power steering under that frame. Be aware that the front axle is narrower than the rear axle. Wide front fenders, while rare, do exist.

Another option, as mentioned above, would be to put the tin only, on modern running gear, front fenders, still narrower.

Good luck.

Ed

Those might be 22.5" or 19.5" tubeless wheels/tires, hard to tell, take a look when you get there.

The deal is done, even though the paperwork isn't - the local fire company sold the truck to one of their firefighters in 1994, who sold it later to a fella up the road, sho sold it to the guy who died (long story). It is being sold by the dead man's GF, who was his heir. And, GF's daughter is handling all the business. Whew! It hasn't been registered for more than 20 years, so the young lady is going to the DMV to sort it out. Once we have a transferable title, we'll make the transaction, but we have a good faith deal.

I'm going to try to post some pix with some of my many questions.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XT9dkrCqTYlErzGf_c45xoIsw4P12SUnrw/view?usp=sharing
#1 Is this a 2 speed rear end?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6QOCDNwi-xsXzBPbk1qTjJ1OHc/view?usp=sharing
#2 Any idea what this number plate on the driver's side firewall means? One of the PO's removed the ID plate for some reason.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6QOCDNwi-xsQ2E2eFEtYzRoZkk/view?usp=sharing
#3 I couldn't with this view see a casting number for engine ID. Pretty dirty down there. I'm told it was routinely running (off road) 4 or 5 years ago.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SmV9NMuCNZJUmyxVRTwDcWsSMoiA3xLqsg/view?usp=sharing
#4 The truck appears to have hydraulic brakes, is this typical?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6QOCDNwi-xsZGNlay1ud3FwcUk/view?usp=sharing
#5 This is the only engine casting I could find, on the driver's side next to the valve cover.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13-RjpBt55-vPEfjpdWwWXTnXfQ_XPIWfdw/view?usp=sharing
#6 Not sure if this (cab floor near driver's seat) has anything to do with a pump device; connects to some apparatus under the frame.

My wife says she's fine going 45 MPH; more time to enjoy the scenery! She learned to drive on her dad's '62 GMC Suburban, so she's gutsy. We're definitely planning for mechanical restoration for the foreseeable future. We feel very fortunate to have found what we're looking for, in such restorable shape.

Brad

Unfortunately I didn't get your response in time to think about doing that. I did take a quick shot of the unmounted dually, but not sure if it shows enough to be helpful. Happily they look fairly new-ish, no signs of dry rot.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6QOCDNwi-xselE0WGlmSGlCbk0/view?usp=sharing

Brad

Thanks for the input, Ed. BTW I worked at Longmont Hospital in the early 1990's until I moved back east. Great area.

http://www.oldgmctrucks.com/Photos/GMC_Numbers.htm

According to this chart, my engine is indeed a 228 (see "Head Casting Numbers column, #6107412).

The 302 sounds intriguing, I read about the more sofisticated military version GMC made, is that ever found nowadays?

Brad

The unmounted dually is a 5 on 8, which is not stock. However, that bolt pattern is available as 22.5 tubeless, so check carefully. Definitely a 2 speed, ratios are usually slow and slower, not very useful. Numbers stamped just behind distr. will tell displacement.

There are lots of 302's around, military just do not have side engine mounts, do not pass one up.

Good luck,

Ed

The number on the firewall could be the title number...Many fire engines were not titled until they were sold, and the issuing State would give it a new number.

It could also be the fire service body serial number issued buy the builder (Hahn, American LaFrance, American etc).

Those wheels are 750x20 on lock ring wheels...They are still serviceable, not the widow maker RH5's.

Mike B

Now that is very good news re: the wheels! I have seen some other references to the cab ID # being placed in that spot, I think you're on to something. I am trying to get in touch with the FD that owned it, to see if they have any old info on file. Thanks!

Brad

Now that is very good news re: the wheels! I have seen some other references to the cab ID # being placed in that spot, I think you're on to something. I am trying to get in touch with the FD that owned it, to see if they have any old info on file. Thanks!

Brad

https://296d048b-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/worcesterhosecompany/wfd50s.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cqCfoHu4viqrE89bkXlvzDaud6wyx0KlNxfkXUAePKdx_xnXIASz-31cSDf_DMlThy2NIhWdcjPpHGAoJzKKcEu78pXk1OCp111EHnpUyAHLu_HsJn1hj07xIJ6CSU_XIgdetjJxji9MUPS383B5rtnCVFrMBdxGjTz312lDKHFmBafjekuIvSSMUGuo-6TSIhDAePLx_YqEWvKhmXXASfEM2vAGw%3D%3D&attredirects=1

Here's a 1950's photo of the old girl in action, 2nd from left. Appears to have been a hose truck.

Brad

Nice truck. Jeffrey

What a beaut! Just take your time and do it your way...but please...keep the pix coming.

I just wanted to add my moral support for your project , I have done many many miles in my '40 truck camper and had lots of great adventures with it.

http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/58561-Post-Pics-of-Your-Hard-Side-Camper!/page16

Looks great, thanks for the support! Truck to be shipped Monday.

Brad

sweet truck. Nice pics. Nice to be able to get some original photos. Does it still have the pump in it? If so it may have a number to track or even from info given by the fire station you can get in touch with pump maker (American Lafrance etc ) and get original truck specs. (you may have to find someone who copied / bought records from maker) Also pic 6 could be a primer pump but need much better angle shots, if it's on the bottom of the pump intake.
Good luck!

52vff, We're fortunate that we are able to be in contact with the retired Fire Chief of the department that owned it up until 1994. Unfortunately a PO removed AL FD related gear; the cylinder in one of my pics is the Bendix vacuum assist braking set-up. The chief is very helpful and interested, and is going to send us some material he has. The conversion was done by a (now defunct regional Fire Apparatus company based in Syracuse, NY called Sanford; they also built their own chassis's as well as did conversions. Apparently this one, being built just at the dawn of WWII, barely escaped military conscription; some sleight of hand by the FD was needed to keep it out of sight!

Brad

If the removed pump location was mid-driveline with a two piece driveshaft, that is a good place to put a Brownie OD trans.

Ed

Ed, turns out my tranny is a Clark 5 speed OD, 3rd-4th-5th synched so I'm quite pleasantly surprised; also the 2 speed rear is 5.01/7.13 (as I recall) so better gearing than expected. The rear shifter was long ago disconnected by the FD as no one was left who knew how to operate it, so that linkage will have to be figured out.

brad