The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Best methods for removing paint

I know this has been discussed a million times, but what the heck I'll ask again. My truck has several coats of different colors and I want to remove most of them without using chemical strippers. These are the power tools I have to use for this job:
angle grinder
electric drill
What other tools and methods do most people use today? Because the body on a AD does not have many flat surfaces, the angle grinder does not seem like a good option. I am open to your suggestions and what worked for you. Steve

At the risk of creating another post about this that folks will not search to find. What's best for Paul is not best for Peter. If you are talking DIY with "normal" tools, Angle grinder is too aggressive unless a "cleaning disc" is used. Sort of a scotch brite on a wheel. (hook and loop stuff). There are many other ways. All have their pros and cons. Chemical=messy/leaves residue(chemical creep after paint). Blasting=need equipment/walnut shells/soda. You can warp and ruin a truck with blasting. DA= good. Hand sand=good/takes forever.
You DO NOT have to sand to bare metal if underlying paint is good and you are not changing color radically.
The best for DIY is DA. The best for overall, cons vs pro, if done by professional, is Soda or glass or plastic. Whatever you do, if you take it to bare metal, you have to prime/protect ASAP!!!!

Woody posted this Wagner Surface Prep Paint Eater/Remover several years ago. It works real well - slow but steady gets the job done (everywhere except in the joints/cracks)?

Hey thanks for your input bartamos. I don't know what DA stands for however.

Thanks Tim, I will look into this tool. Have you ever used one?

DA = Dual Action Sander
http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/am-en/products/tools/edge-series-tools/sanders/311g

Mark

It is a sander, usually air driven, like 52Ton says. It rotates while revolving in an ellipse.(Dual Action) Uses all grits of paper. Takes off paint without grooving and just floats across the surface nicely. Does not do curves unless you are well experienced. Will do large curves and flat very nicely. Does take off paint fairly rapidly. Lots of paper, lots of dust. Just run a fan while working, blows it away from you. You need a mask also.

That is my preferred paint-removing tool. Slow but steady gets the job done.

With multiple layers of paint to remove I'd go with the angle grinder and 60 or 45 grit disks to remove the top layers then switch to 80 grit for the last bit. Once I saw metal peeking through I'd stop, THEN I'd switch to a DA and 80 grit.
For stripping paint a circular as opposed to a DA sander works much faster. Save the DA for when you don't want to remove as much as fast.
Even with 60 grit grinding/sanding disks it's going to take a good long time to reach the primer coat. The 3m stripper disks work great but can wear out quicker than the disks so I save them for the last bit... when I don't want to gouge the metal with the 60 or 45 grit.

Also grinders work best when using just the outer 1/3 of the disk on an angle with the spin direction working away as opposed to towards your 'target', so round or flat surface doesn't make much of a difference. A good respirator sure will though.

Can't visualize what this means or does? Do you really mean spin direction? or movement of sander? I am visualizing coming into a "target" from the left and coming in from the right. Don't see spin direction of disc would play into it. Do you mean work the sander starting at target and move away?

I like these:
http://t.harborfreight.com/4-12-in-polycarbide-abrasive-wheel-60571.html

I call them the paint eraser. The have them at the home big box stores as well.

These work miraculously for removing multiple layers of paint and there is nothing which I have found that removes bondo better.
Norton makes a blue version which works better and lasts longer (it is more expensive to buy, but in the end, the cost equals out)
Also, neither of these hurt the metal.
Carl

Agree too that these work great. Just keep it moving so as not to get the metal too hot. I got a couple of places too hot to touch when concentrating too much on one spot. Didn't cause a problem with warping for me but I was really surprised at how hot you can get the metal.

Dennis

Tim, the advantage I can see with this tool is it is more ergonamic and probably lighter. I used a disc similar to the 3m on my electric drill and find it very aggressive.

As you move from left to right with the clockwise motion of the top of the disk (12-3) is moving into/towards the material you want to remove pushing as opposed to pulling if you will.
But if you use the area from 5 or 6 to 9 the material is thrown off the surface and the disk.

Of course, when you're moving from right to left the opposite becomes true. So you want 12 to 3 in contact.

This is why curves don't mean much to me, because I'm not using all 16" of the area/footprint on a 4.5" disk. I only have 2 or 3 square inches actually in contact and cutting at a time.
Maybe that's why it takes me so long.

This isn't going to make a huge difference over the course of stripping a whole truck. I just found it to be a useful awareness at times.
It's not like I'd make a religious practice out of it.... But what's a guy to do for all those hours of tedious yet meticulous work? I noticed some disks loaded up faster and 'believe' that was a contributing factor.

Steve: A dozen poly disks and maybe twice that in 4.5 or 5" disks and away ya go!
My question is are you planning to do this all on the rig or remove the pieces (and work on a table)?

CASO, I will remove the fenders to install welt.

This may be a dumb question, but does anybody ever use a soft wire wheel? What are risks associated with this?

I use them on the parts the poly wheel can't reach. Not as fast as the poly wheel but can reach the hard to reach parts.

The only risk I'm aware of with wire wheels is a tendency to 'polish' the metal making adhesion problematic. So just make sure you hit those areas with some 80 grit when your done.

Wire wheel is great for frames, brackets, motors, trannys, differentials...hard parts. (That's the big honker cup wheel on a big grinder.) Bench grinder wire wheel good for hardware and smaller parts. Some people do use it for body paint removal but it's a wild ride. I'm not talking on a drill motor. Poly wheel and DA is a good gig.
Just saw a DA polisher, did not know about those til HF ad.

The only risk I'm aware of with wire wheels is a tendency to 'polish' the metal making adhesion problematic. So just make sure you hit those areas with some 80 grit when your done.[/quote]

I did 2 tractors with just a wire wheel. I totally agree about the polishing and lack of primer adhesion. I have several flaking areas on the tractors now. Since then I have tried everything already suggested. What I found worked best are the 3M discs similar to the one above from Harbor Freight. They come in different colors and do wear differently. The blue available at most home improvement stores wear the fastest. The black ones at welding shops are better but the orange industrial last the longest in my experience. They will remove the paint quite fast as well as any rust but do not remove any good metal. For me they work way better than any sanding. For smaller areas I like the 3M roloc discs.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/Hookalatch/ural/Ural031.jpg

Orange.... good to know. Thanks.

for what it is worth, here is my recent (today, in fact) experience.

1955 with multiple coats of paint (in a bad way...)

used a dewalt sander with 80 grit on the 'decent' paint areas.

used this:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_117946-70-D26453K___?productId=1005793&pl=1&Ntt=dewalt+sander

(similar to that)

with this

http://www.lowes.com/pd_361311-1069-12051___?productId=3456212&pl=1&Ntt=sanding+discs


had some spots so bad that I went with a dewalt grinder and the harbor freight 4.5 inch poly grinding pad (buy several) previously mentioned. I had to go buy more today. they do wear out.

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-12-in-polycarbide-abrasive-wheel-60571.html

used this (but take off the guard):

http://www.lowes.com/pd_674788-70-DWE402W5_1z0wcir__?productId=50373864&pl=1

I agree with other posters that you do not have to go to the metal 'all around' if the paint already there is solid and can be sanded to make a uniform base for paint or primer.

in my case most of the body panels were ok. but, the hood is so bad that I have gone through 2 poly grinding pads and am only through 1/3 of the hood. it was so bad that the paint had split and cracked in a way that I have never seen before.

lastly, take your time - it is not a race. go over everything and then make a second pass, and then a third pass if necessary.

have fun!

and, wear eye protection and a breathing mask. toxic stuff flying around that you do not want to breathe in or get in your eye. (ask me how I know....)

like this for eyes - overkill but effective - or goggles:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74556-98-90028-80025___?productId=3082689&pl=1&Ntt=eye+protection

and like this for breathing:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_272094-98-8511___?productId=3029626&pl=1&Ntt=face+mask

hplacebf, this is interesting. I used an orbital sander and I just bought (today) the same kind of discs. I have not used this brand before.So far it is working OK but a SLOW process. AD trucks are really "curvy" and I have not done the fenders yet. If I have to use an angle grinder I'll use it on the bed where the surface is more flat. That might even be too aggressive in my situation. Thanks for the tips. Steve

it is slow process if the paint is thick. to do my hood (which was a mess) took about 3 hours and 4 discs.

in addition to the other safety gear, try to use heavy duty cowhide gloves to protect your hands from the discs (ask me how I know....). also consider a hat.

hood

also, as you are grinding/sanding you might start to hear a voice in the back of your mind saying things like

"..why did I buy this truck..."

or

"...what was I thinking..."

or

"... I could be drinking a beer and watching tv right now...."

just ignore it.....

I'm a believer in safety. Gettin' hurt just ruins your whole day.

I just bit the bullet and paid the local sandblaster for the hood and a few other parts. He charges 90 bucks an hour and I don't have to take the health risks.

I think in many cases there is some degree of personal satisfaction in doing it yourself - within reason, and depending upon one's goals.


Here is before sanding/grinding - note the heavily cracked paint on the hood; it was all over (pic was for the fender in another thread)

Before anything



Here is after my grinding/sanding work, but before primer:
Before



and here is after primer:
After

and I can look at it and say yeah, I did it and it came out nice.

Just to back it up a little bit. If a wire polishes the steel and prevents adhesion, after a scuff with 80 grit would an acid etch primer restore the ability to hold paint? I know that etch primer isn't waterproof, so is it advisable to use underneath an epoxy "topcoat" of primer?
Thanks.
I may have gone too far on my one ton and hope I don't have problems because of my ignorance.

Acid etch...... NO not only is it not water proof it is Epoxies Enemy.
80grit sand paper Yes.
Then remember to properly clean the metal with a wax and grease remover (not laquer cleaner) and let that dry 30min.

If you haven't done some thorough research on proper painting procedures I suggest you look into it.

Just have to throw this in. I used evapo-rust on some small pieces that later were primed [no problem at that point] then painted [all looked good then too] ..... then about a month later the pieces treated with that de-rusting solution had what I call chemical creep working little bubbles into the final coats of paint. I really never expected this product to behave similarly to paint stripper. Am I the only one who has experienced this?

lane

Oh goody one of my favorites...

Evaporust is just a product name on a Phosphoric acid based liquid. read the label and see what it's contents are.
Lookup "phosphoric acid and epoxy paint" and you'll find the answer is if the product (be it evaporust, Ospho,or PPG's own rust converter) to going to be painted with todays high quality epoxy primers IT MUST BE WASHED OFF WHILE STILL WET.

You can let it sit for days dried on and you're safe from rust but, when you're ready to prime first re-apply the 'whatever name it is' phosphoric acid and let it sit a few minutes. Then wash it off, I use an old scuff pad.
It doesn't matter that the product label says "apply, let dry, ready for paint". That's fine for rustoleum, it's a different type of paint (Acrylic) but for the price of even off brand products not to mention the TIME involved in the first let alone the second place I ask myself, "how can leaving an Acid under my paint against my bare metal even sound like a good idea?"

Their directions/instructions say:

- Thoroughly wash/rinse with clean water.

- If particles need to be scrubbed off when rinsing, let it dry, re-apply, and rinse again with water.

"No further treatment is required once the rust has been removed with Evapo-Rust®.

In some cases, residual rust may still be embedded in the metal (pits, crevices) after the initial soaking. In this case, rinse the metal with water and re-soak in Evapo-Rust®. All residual rust will be removed from these hard to reach places.

It is important to always rinse the metal after a treatment with Evapo-Rust®. Tiny molecules of iron will still be embedded in the Evapo-Rust® solution, and these molecules must be rinsed off with water or they will activate the re-formation of rust on the metal object."

The first 10 years of listening to the Masters here at The StoveBolt were to learn every nuance of each step of the restoration process. I have been so blessed to have paid close attention to each thread and then surmised the value of each issue accordingly.

Here is what I personally decided. Your call and you SHOULD make your own decisions. Sandblast EVERYTHING. If its going back on the truck, its one of two things. Its either sandblasted or its plated by a professional plater. There is no gray area.

Blast with #1 Silica Sand using the appropriate safety crap, clean with PPG Metal Prep, Epoxy Prime with PPG DPLF, Primer with K36 High Build, then put it away for as long as 10 years until you are ready for it.

Its liberating that NONE of the issues above apply to me since all of the above issues are addressed in the very best way possible using tried and true (but nasty and miserable work) SANDBLASTING! So, get off the couch boys.. put away the video games, put on the suit, helmet, etc, etc and do something that will make your truck truly special!

I know I will hear about it, but guys, I hate to see people try things that LOOK like they will save you time or misery when there just isnt anything that beats sandblasting, only to spend the money on it, decide NO, thats not to my exacting standards, so now I get to throw good money after bad by now spending money on blasting equipment. You will be happy you did. I bet not a week goes by that I am not doing something at the blast cabinet.
Please dont get me wrong, but it feels wonderful knowing this is no longer an issue!

Deve, you said "not a week"....well, for me its almost daily. The blasting cabinet is among the best money I ever spent. Had it going on 15 years and I never regret buying it.

Deve,

Had been looking at the TP Tools blasting cabinets for the past two years as I was contemplating cleaning all the attachments to my 235 and the block, valve cover, and oil pan. Cleaned the block and valve cover using multiple wire brushes and an electric drill. When I rolled the re-built block over in the engine stand and got about a third of the way through the oil pan with the wire brush and drill combo, I pulled the trigger and ordered the blasting cabinet. What a good decision that was. Went with a big cabinet to use for larger pieces.

While I agree with your approach Deve, there are some who don't have the room or bucks or just arn't set up for a blast cab yet. They still want to do the best prep possible so chemicals may come into play.
Thats fine, phosphoric acid does do the job, it just requires some extra care and attention. My concerns are that those who do use something other than blasting aren't bit in the butt months or years down the road...

To each his/her own.

I found an industrial blaster who blasted body/sheet-metal parts for less $$ than I would have spent on good material.

I bought a large blast cabinet for smaller parts than the big sheet metal pieces, and I wish I had bought the cabinet earlier. CASO is correct about needing the bucks AND needing the room. You also need a good compressed air system - more $$$.

I do not use silica/sand in my blast cabinet. I use a combination of aluminum oxide and plastic bead. The bead turns to dust and the al-ox lasts a long time. I add each media as needed.

Only cleaned metal gets into the blast cabinet:
- paint-removed, usually chemically
- chemically de-rusted as much as possible
- washed/cleaned as much as possible