The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Engine Dilema

Hello;
I am hoping one of you will be able to answer this;
Truck 1952 GMC 9430 1 ton, Canadian built
The issue is the 216 motor which is built on a 235 block and head has a split in the block. Long story short is the block held water when I first got it, I suspect due to all the crud in it sealed it shut. I had to find a new head for it due to cracks which I now have and its all machined and ready. During re-assembly I filled it back up with water to check for leaks around plugs and gaskets and found this split…needless to say I should have taken the block in for testing. Lesson learned!
I have found a complete engine c/w transmission very close to home that I can get pretty reasonable. I think it is a 1954 235 which I have asked for more information on. The question is will the head I had re-done work on this or should I try to find another 235 block? This link will take you to the only pictures I have so far.

http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/52_Ton/library/Motor?sort=3&page=1

Any advise or comments would be appreciated. I wanted to keep the truck original but now that the block is shot I want to get it done and drive her!
Thanks
Mark

Count the number of head bolts.

http://1954advance-design.com/Stovebolt-engine/head-bolt.html

All of the 216s and the early 235s had 15 head-bolts; and, the later 235s and all 261s had 18 head-bolts.

The answer is definitely no. That head will only fit the series from 1950 to 52. The head is a pretty rare find these days as you probably know.

If the crack is on the outside of the block, repair it. You're this far into it, if the repair is done correctly, no one will be able to tell it has been fixed.

Yes Fred, it seams to be an odd one and finding info is difficult.
As far as repairing it I didn't think that was an option due to it being cast steel?

I have seen cast iron repaired with small pipe plugs. Clean the area really good, bead blast or sand blast even so you can see the start and end of the crack. Drill and tap a hole half way in to the crack and good metal then screw in the pipe plug. Cut the head off and grind flush without hitting the block. Then drill a second hole part way into the first plug and the crack and install a plug. Do this all the way down the crack. Lots of heads are repaired using this method. Use solid pipe plugs with a square drive protruding, don't use the type that use allen wrenches or square drives that are recessed into the plug.

You can also " V " out the crack and weld it. Preheat the iron around the crack and use the correct wire or rod. Keep the block hot and cool it slowly after welding. Brazing or even silver solder can work. If you are good enough at it, I would bet good old radiator solder would work if you can get it to stick.

Then there is the JB Weld repair. Again " V " out the crack and clean it a couple times, add the JB Weld and let it set up. This would be easier if the block was on its side, the epoxy will flow out smooth and into the crack. If you could plug all the other holes, you can pull a vacuum in the block to draw the epoxy into the crack even more.

The old cooling systems only have a couple pounds of pressure on them or less, so it doesn't take all that much to seal one.

Getting it clean is the hardest part.

Joe

I'd grab up that 235 or any 235, will be the best way to go. Chassing cracks in cast iron can be frustrating. If you freeze cast iron it will break.
Best of luck

Block stitching needs to be done with cast iron tapered plugs, not steel pipe plugs. There's enough heat expansion difference to create more cracks (and leaks) if steel plugs are used to stitch a block. Goodson, K-Line, and a couple of other machine shop supply places sell the tooling and the plugs, but they're expensive. Unless you're in the auto machine shop business, another engine or maybe a patch with Marine-Tex will be a better idea. Fortunately, you don't have to seal against 15 pounds or more of cooling system pressure.
Jerry

Its a rather large crack now that I see where the water is running from. Will epoxy with stand the expansion and contraction of the block?
I think I will take a look at the 235 I mentioned to have a back up if needed.
Being a novice with all this I really appreciate you guys taking the time to give your opinions.

Mark

Regular epoxy won't- - - -Marine-Tex is designed to be flexible and waterproof. The block surface MUST be clean and it helps for it to be as dry as possible. Drill a small hole (1/8") at both ends of the crack to keep it from spreading. The crack should be V-grooved for the best results. Just as the patch material is curing, press a piece of 40 grit sandpaper over the surface to duplicate the texture of the surrounding cast iron. That's just cosmetic- - - -it hides the patch after painting.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry;
Is it this product you are referring to?
http://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?category=10060|10075|10695&product=31760940&code=Gluvit%20Qt

I think this is what your referring to?
http://www.marinetex.com/marinetexrapidset.html

I have a new box of tapered cast iron screws and the unused drill and tap to go with them but once I used Marine Tex I never sewed another block. I blast with media, gouge out a shallow "V" groove the length of the crack, rough on both sides with 24 grit and smear on Marine Tex to maybe an inch on each side of the crack. Never had one fail yet. Picture is of a 1940 Pontiac 6 cylinder block where the crack runs into a freeze plug hole. Used a rubber freeze plug which will seal a slightly irregular surface which the hole had after patching. That was 5 years ago and not a trace of a rust trail around the patch yet.

http://s32.photobucket.com/user/coilover/media/40%20Pontiac%20engineand%20trans%20002.jpg.html

Thanks Evan, is it the Marine Tex Epoxy putty?
http://www.marinetex.com/marinetexepoxyputty.html

Being in Canada sometimes its hard to get the same products

That's the stuff. I'm not sure if the 2-tube emergency fix is the same product, but my friend in the boat business keeps the epoxy putty on hand all the time. He swears by it for all sorts of repairs.
jerry

Thanks Jerry;
I had a closer look and I think the block is toast. The crack is 3/4 across the block and through two of the support webs. the two sides have shifted apart about 1/8". I don't think I feel confident in using epoxy on this. I added a couple of pictures to the link;
http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/52_Ton/library/Motor?sort=3&page=1
I still don't know how I missed this, better get some better lights in the shop, or new glasses...

Yes, that one goes a bit beyond just stopping a leak. It must have frozen solid from top to bottom to do that much damage. What are commonly called "freeze" plug holes are actually there to poke the casting sand out at the foundry- - - -no guarantee at all that they're going to prevent block damage during cold weather! Have you got a medium-sized boat that needs an anchor?
Jerry

Thanks Jerry….no boats here. You need one?
I have a little more info on the motor for sale:

Head- 3836848
Block- 836233

Looks like it is a 1956 235 from the casting coeds. I assume this would work to replace my motor if I decide to go that way?

Mark

That is why GM calls them core plugs. Those holes were made when casting the blocks for the need to wash out the casting sand from the area that makes up the water jacket.

The core plugs is how those openings are closed, seal the water jacket. They were never designed to pop out when the engine coolant was to freeze.

52 Ton, if this truck is not needed for daily transportation why not just give the epoxy a try?

Even if works but does not last forever it will give you time to find the right engine while you can use your truck.

I am in the middle of doing a restoration which will go on for some time, I am looking into getting a new block to rebuild it. Because the crack is so large I just wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it. Even if you tap on the side of the block you can hear the weakness in it. I have to wonder if it had a fine crack and when I knocked the new plugs in it may have opened up further?
The worst thing is the head was only used in 50-52 trucks and its going to be fun to find a block to match. Looks like RPM may have one that could work.

So I think the same block was used here for the 216 and the 235 but in the US I think only for the 235. Those were interesting times!

A few people have some 235's for sale in the Alberta area. Guy is selling a running one for $250.

Do you know what year? if it was a 50-52 era would be great.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-...78903150?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


I WOULD OFFER 200. HIS AD HAS BEEN UP FOR A LONG TIME

Thanks Wolffcub, I appreciate it.

That motor has a three speed bolted to it. Can I bolt my bell housing and 4 speed to it?

The short of it YES.
You cant use that trans/bell assm. anyway, its coming out of a car.
Get the Guy to give you some block CASTING Codes and the SERIAL # stamped on the flat boss behind the dist,to be Certain its the right Engine.
regards,
steve sr.

I have found a motor a little closer to home that will work. Its a 235 from a 52 Belair with the same head that was originally on my block. Being my block was a 216 built on a 235 block (Canadian EH) I'm wondering what the difference is between the two motors. In my Oshawa version manual it looks like the only main difference is the bore and stroke. Is this achieved only with a different piston? The manual seems to say the crank and connecting rods are the same. It looks like the cam is the same only having an aluminum timing gear listed for it.
I am planning on tearing this motor down to check it and clean it out and wondering how many of the parts will work in either block?

Mark