The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Rebuilding a starter

For comparison, if rebuilding a Rochester B carb is a 10 on a 10 point scale, 10 being the hardest, what would rebuilding a starter be? Is it money well spent, or just too easy to buy a new one?

is it for one of your old trucks? Starters are relatively easy to rebuilt and knowing you, you can do it. If the armature is good you can still buy brushes and bushings.
Do you have a starter rebuild place? Shouldn't cost much if you want them to do it. Tell them you want it to work, not necessarily look good. May save you a buck or two.
I'm fortunate to have a starter/alt. rebuild place close by and friends with owner. He's saved my butt many times!
Let us know how you make out,Allen.

I suppose it depends on what all is wrong with your current one. I've looked over the shoulders of guys rebuilding them in the local shop here before it closed, and for the most part it didn't seem that difficult, but you may need some tools like a lathe that aren't in everyone's garage. There is also some electrical test equipment that makes figuring out if the windings are good easy. If your windings are good and all you need is a set of brushes and maybe some bushings it would be a fairly simple job. The lathe comes in if the contact area for the brushes is damaged and needs to be refaced.

I'm not sure how the economics works out if you need more than just the brushes and bushings, but I had mine rebuilt when it died a few years ago, and it needed pretty much everything internal replaced. (it had been rebuilt before, probably more than once and failed the electrical tests for all windings) If you can get the parts, putting them in wouldn't be that bad either, but I had mine done at the shop.

Yes Alvin, it's one off of a 235. It worked perfectly well when I took the engine out. It's just rusty, dirty and keeps staring at me when I walk in the shop. The rebuild kits look pretty simple. Don't have a lathe. Guess I could just take it apart, clean it up, put in the kit and run it till it quits.

That is a good question. You can get all the parts you need from Rock Auto on the cheap. In fact if you act now and catch the close-out price on a starter drive (about $8 plus shipping while 2 are remaining), you could have a nice new-ish unit really economically. If you need a new solenoid, this could be a more costly item, but I've had worse luck with drives than solenoids. As others have said everything assumes your armature is ok. If it is bad, then a rebuilt starter might be your best bet. Good luck!
Jon

There is a guy in Johnson City, TX that I have taken old starters and generators to. He is good, but he always has a big backlog. He is listed as Commercial Alternators.

I also would mention Richardson Starter and Generator (or maybe it is Generator and Starter) on Greenville Ave is a good rebuilder. Honest people. Don't know where you are in Texas, actually.
Jon

Thanks Jon and Ken...I'm near Houston. It seems when this topic comes up, guys that have been in the business a while always mention access to a good rebuilder. So I need to find one near me.

Starter/generator/alternator repair is becoming a dying skill. High volume rebuilders have driven the prices down so far on late model items that a small shop can't compete, so the ripple effect of driving a small business out of the market is that those scarce and/or older items get left in the dust. The guy I do business with is a second-generation owner of a tiny shop, with two or three employees. He's in his early 60's, and I don't know if there's a plan to keep the business open when he retires or passes on. He's got a huge supply of obsolete parts and core items, so when I need something scarce, his shop is the logical place to start looking.
Jerry

Most of the time my dad would just put in a new set of brushes. Then from a roll of 2" wide roll of commutator paper he would tear of a strip about 6" long and he would work it back and forth as if he was shining shoes.

Saying that you had to keep moving the direction from where you pulled the paper so you would remove the material evenly. He said if we had a drill press to spin the armature while holding the paper would take care of that.

My dad also said if it is not broke don't fix it. Though if your starter looks that bad you can always just clean it up.

We have become used to "remove and replace" on many parts. Finding a good shop to actually repair/rebuild is a challenge. It would appear that areas with agriculture support in place are better for our needs. The starter for most of us is a simple, and approachable task. But the skills needed and tools required to do more than brush and bushing replacement are getting harder to find. Most starters need little more than a good cleaning, brushes and bushings. Some will need the "Bendix" drive replaced. A few will need winding's and some might need the armature re-wound. The starter lives in a place custom made for dirt collection and water as well. And for most of us, it is a part that works(and gets ignored) or it don't. The Shop Manual is pretty good, for the task. If you do replace the bushings, and the brushes, and it still won't work. Then a shop will come in handy. Try as much as your skills will allow. Then get help if you need. It can be more fun that way.

Thanks Guys. Got rained out again in the riding arena today so spent some time in the shop. So MY answer to my original question, if a carb rebuild is a 10, a starter would be a 2-3. Much, much more simple and fewer opportunities to mess things up. Biggest challenge is getting the 4 screws that hold the magnets and coil. Never did, and my coil does need replaced. Got 'em soaking in pbblaster, but am guessing they will get sacrificed and replaced. Brushes and armature look good. Someone rebuilt before. It was a real mess, so cleaned up good and will order the kit now. See on ebay rebuilt ones go for $150-$180. Also found this site that I had not heard of before, let me know if you've guys have had good/or bad luck with them.

Starter source

The link says "List price: $459.66" (their price is much less)

That is incredible; but, with the dying out of the rebuild trade that Jerry talks about... I can see the list price becoming the norm. It'll become one more of the catalysts behind the "cheaper to put a 350 in it" conversations.

Thanks for the link- never heard of nor dealt with them before, however.

Brad

Hers a shop
http://www.classicgenerator.com/StarterKits.html

Thanks guys. Sometimes the solution is just too easy. Had two discussions today with local rebuilders at about $150, and they weren't going to paint it. Then I found this. Just not in the habit yet of thinking about local flaps for AD parts. At least I can justify the couple hours cleaning it up to confirm it is on it's last leg.
Napa Starter

If it has any O-Rings on it, take it off before you install it. LOL! Yeah, starters and generators is something I just take to the auto-electric shop, or purchase new. I feel the same way Allen. I have a local NAPA and I try to use them. Its hit and miss, but I try them first since they can get anything in their system the next day. That looks like a decent choice.

Allen, it takes a special device called a "pole shoe vise" to get those screws that hold the field coils out of the case. It's like a huge C clamp that is bolted to the workbench top that holds a big screwdriver bit like a drag link socket tight into the screw. Then a LONG handle is used to turn the screws. They've probably got close to 100 ft/lbs of torque on them, so the likelihood of an amateur getting 'em out is slim, and getting one tight enough to hold properly on reassembly is just about impossible. If the field coils need changing, that's a job for a pro with the right tools!
Jerry

Thanks Jerry, good to know. I boogered one screw up pretty good with a punch. Got no love from my impact driver and a BFH, then broke the biggest straight slot bit I could find in an impact wrench when I called it quits. You're right, best to leave this one to pro's. Do you by chance remember what the symptoms are if you only need brushes. That's about all I would take on in the future. This 235 starter had a cool little "bra strap" like device around the bottom which I'm guessing is so you could get under the truck and blow out the brushes with an air hose and without taking the starter out.

The most common symptom is slow or no rotation of the armature when the brushes get too short to make good contact with the armature. Another common problem is the bushings getting worn enough that the armature drags the pole shoes under load. That's indicated by shiny spots on the armature and the pole shoes. Once repairs get beyond changing brushes, bushings, and the drive gear assembly, plus machining the commutator, the cost is usually more than a good reman unit will cost. I virtually never change an armature or field coils- - - -too much work and expense!
Jerry

It can be done at home, if you have access to a milling
machine, a lathe and an oxy/act torch. It is possible to
assemble a make shift press and safely remove/install the
pole pieces.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/150107569
This starter had a bad field coil and I replaced them with
heavy duty coils I got from Ken Warner at Classic Generator
in Midlothian, TX. He also supplied the new post, starter
switch, brushes and bearings. The commutator should be turned
true to the center line of the armature for the new brushes,
the insulation relieved between the segments and the armature
checked with a growler for shorts to ground and coil to coil
shorts or open coils.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/160598953

As Jerry posted, if your not equipped to delve this deeply
into a starter or generator your best bet is to take it to
a professional starter/generator shop. Simply sanding the
commutator and installing new brushes might work for a quick
fix but that's one of the reasons that we hear complaints
about 6v starters not operating up to snuff and generators
not performing as they should.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I'm alittle late to the party but had to R&R 2 starters over the past couple 3 yrs, one on a 49 216 and another on a 54 235.
I tried to repair the 216 with new brushes and cleaned up armature to no avail. It would easily spin on the bench but didn't have enough torque to spin the engine.
The 235 starter needed too much repair (just about everything).
Replaced both with that NAPA starter you linked at around $60 ea.
which also included a new contact switch. No problems so far with either. They do require a core so if you go that route just take the old one wiih you.

Good luck
Dave