The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Rubber hose from petcock

I just read the post from showme and it got me thinking of my situation. A couple of years ago a friend was helping me with new fuel line. He said the rubber hose was unecessary but I think he was wrong. It seems that there needs to be flexibility in this area. Am I correct? I like the idea that Gus and Denny used with the inline filter. Steve

A rubber hose was used in 1953, somewhere between the fuel tank and the fuel pump (different location for different models). I think it was there to avoid/minimize "fatigue" cracking in the metal line due to flex/movement between the fuel tank and the fuel pump?

I'll get corrected quickly if this is wrong.

I believe my 52 panel to have been original or very close and the gas line ran steel to the "hump" at the right back wheel where it had a rubber line going from the chassis rail to the gas tank. This may, or may hot have been correct but that is the way I have it and I added a filter coming out of the tank.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/000_0167.jpg

The fuel tank is rigidly attached to the cab, the cab is
supported by shackles in the rear where it is free to move as
the frame twists. The steel fuel line is rigidly attached to
the frame. A little common sense seems to indicate that there
should be a flexible connection betwixt the two.
The steel line feeding the fuel pump is last attached to the
frame approximately 30" back via a clip on the rear engine
crossmember. The engine with good motor mounts moves very
little and there is very little flex in the front half of the
frame, so even though the line is rigidly attached to the
fuel pump, it does not move enough to reach it's yield
point. And apparently the cyclic load that is present, is
not great enough to cause metal fatigue, at least not
within the life cycle of these trucks. I've never heard
of one failing, unless it was improperly installed.

dg

Thanks fellas, your experience is always appreciated. Steve

If your engine is rubber mounted, and it is, and your fuel line is mounted to the frame,and I suspect it is, then a flexible connection is required. If that isn't there then at the most unhandy time you are going to end up with a fuel leak. The same if your fuel tank is in the cab, a flexible needs to be involved. Another advantage the the rubber line is that the fuel line won't be used as a ground for the battery.

Wrong Jack. Don't know what sort of truck you have but the
engine in a Stovebolt with good 'rubber motor mounts moves
very very little. As I've posted above, the line is mounted
by a clip approximately 30" to the rear of the fuel pump.
Chevrolet shipped every one of the Advance Design truck
configured that way and they've been running that way for 60
years or more in some cases. I can't say how the pre or post
AD's were run, maybe Dave or one of the guys that are into
those series can clear that up. I've never heard of a fuel
line failure to the pump due to fatigue. If you can envision
your 30" radio antenna whipping in the wind for decades and
not braking off then that's the same situation you have with
the fuel line but with less whipping.
If the engine in your Stovebolt is moving around then you
simply need new motor mounts, not a rubber hose. If your only
ground is thru the fuel line then you need a new battery
cable. Even if there were a ground path thru the line without
oxygen there is no problem.
99% of the fuel fires on these engines is from a ruptured
diaphragm or leak at the carburetor.

dg

Howdy Denny.....I'm not wrong, I've mechaniced for a while and have run into and seen a few fuel leaks because of this. Almost invariably it will be a broken flare in the fuel pump.Tight engine and cab mounts are sure nice, but I haven't seen a mount that was ever changed until it definitely needed it, I might be wrong there but I think not.As far as grounds are concerned, they need to hooked up. I've seen fuel linkage so hot you couldn't touch it, it was smoking, all because a ground was forgotten. Fires do start usually at the carb but I hadn't realized we were about fires.
Just an aside, I have a 28 1 Ton and they come without rubber mounts so flex lines arn't necessary, But I like a coil in the line to take up the slack....(-: Terry

Then if you feel safer with a flexible line to your fuel
pump, then by all means, put one on your truck. You have
every right to modify anything you want on your vehicle.

Your post gave the impression that you were concerned about
the ridged line from the rear cross member to the fuel pump
breaking, which would be a fire hazard, sorry if that was to
far off subject for you.

And I didn't say that you shouldn't run a ground from the
engine to the frame and from the frame to the battery, the
point that I was trying to get across was that if your
vehicle was properly maintained the path of least resistance
for a ground would be thru the ground straps. If you want
to play the 'what if' game like OSHA has perfected then
the possibilities of part failures are endless.

The fact remains, the factory stock AD's were never built
with a rubber hose feeding the fuel pump. But they did have
one from the shutoff in the bottom of the fuel tank as was
discussed earlier.
My only interest is in restoration to factory specifications,
not arguing whether these trucks can be re-engineered to
your personal preference.

DG

Well Denny....I was answering 53Movinon on whether to use a flex line or not.When it comes to fuel lines we can, as you've said, use what you want, black pipe is available if you want but I wouldn't recommend it, but I would a rubber line between the fuel pump and the fuel line at the frame.

There are already enough problems without playing the "what if" games and making more problems. . The examples I've given are real and have happened a lot of times in one's experience. For the same reason that flexible exhaust hangers are used. but that is another post....Terry

Here is how the plumbing to the fuel pump is constructed on my 41 Deco GI Chevy.

[img]http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/3176/2013-11-22_17_36_43.jpg[/img]

Paul

Not exactly an Advance Design or Art Deco pickup is it Paul??
That truck was meant to take a 'REAL' beating and still keep on ticking.
I'm gonna ad that picture to the archive. I'll bet it's hard to find fuel filters for that one???

dg

There is a small flex line coming out of the gas tank that connects to the hard line correct? About a 4 inch hard tube coming out of the tank, a brass fitting that allows for a petcock on one side, rubber tubing about 6 inches long, then the hard line to the fuel pump. Right? All AD's were stock that way.

Thats the only flex line which makes sense, since the cab moves sufficiently to warrant it.

1954/55 A-D's were plumbed differently, with no petcock (the fuel exited the tank at the top of the tank), but they still had a short length of flex line between tank and fuel pump.

Not correct Deve. The routing for the pre-'54 AD's is: 2" brass
pipe nipple from tank--brass fuel shutoff with inverted flare
side outlet--to flex hose--to hard line mounted to frame--to
fuel pump.

The 54-55 1st. is illustrated here:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/fuel_pump_fuel_lines
Hard line from sender to bottom of tank--Flex hose thru
floorboard--to hard line mounted to RS of frame--to fuel pump.
Don't think it could be any more clear for a stock set up.

Don't have access to an early AD with the tank mounted under
bed but I would imagine that it simply had a nipple, fuel
shutoff and hard line running up to the fuel pump.
dg

Now just how did "Carl" get drug into this one?
I don't mind being wrong. I would just appreciate the opportunity to actually opine, so that I can be proven as such. (Not difficult to do BTW.)
Carl

Now are you seeing things Carl?

Sorry, I stand corrected, I had my head turned and I thought I
heard your voice over my shoulder, it was that other guy from
out there in corn country that almost had it right but not
quite.

dg

But thats what I said! LOL! Anyway, I only have 4 trucks that I have to drain the gas tanks every year via the stock system. On my new resto, I am putting a glass prefilter inline with it as well.

'Cept for the part - "About a 4 inch hard tube coming out of
the tank, a brass fitting that allows for a petcock on one
side". Ahh, those tiny details, gotta watch those
anal retentive types Deve.

I've often made the point that my truck isn't queen of the
ball, rather she's a dirt road driver. However I do try my best at
being a 95% perfectionist when it comes to keeping her stock.
That said, the 5% where I stray is for things like this.
I opted for an inline filter right after the fuel leaves the
tank cuz it's the original tank and for 10 years now I've
gotten rust-dust out of it constantly. I finally grew tired
of cleaning the fuel pump screeen out ever few months and
I installed one of these Moeller clear glass filters 5 or 6
years back. Had nothing but trouble with keeping it sealed:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/137693965

This past fall I nipped off the flared ends on the tubes and
put one of these in place of it and haven't had a problem
with it. It's clear also and you can easily see when it needs
changing, and they're available everywhere if you're out on
the road and have a problem:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/155922018

DG

Denny and all y'all, that's the path I took, thought I was real clever with that new fangled-glass-replaceable-filer type. I have an original tank and get sediment/rust particles but I think that is from normal fuel intake over time. I ended up after a short trial period of the glass tube type with the tried and true disposables like that in Denny's second picture. Daily driver only vehicle since '97.

Well Denny, how DO you install the rubber hose and filter. As you probably guessed by that question, what may be simple for some folks has to be shown and explained to rookies like me. It looks like the male end of the new rubber hose just screws into the petcock. Not sure about the NAPA filter and to the hard line to the fuel pump. Haven't added a flairing tool to my tool kit yet. I have to pull the tank to repair the cab corners. I might as well re-install it correctly. Former "Land of Lincoln" native. Steve

I guess the tube I described isnt exactly 4 inches. Anyhow, those glass filters leak where? I care because I have a few new ones I was planning on using because YOU recommended them. Are they leaking at the fittings? I want to try them anyway. Did you hard line them in, or use rubber? If you hard lined them in, as was my plan, and they leaked, then you went to the other ones and used rubber, thats not apples to apples right? Just trying to understand.

And Steve.. dont give Denny too much credit for knowing agricultural geography.. Kansas doesn't have alot of corn fields. (he gets it! lol)

Use a barbed connector and clamps on the hose, barbed connector off valve

...pic...
...pic...

The napa filter denny lnked is barbed.


That glass filter leaked on me also so I got rid of it.
It leaks on the filter itself. It's threaded on the ends to change the element. That is where mine leaked.


I just use a canister filter and change it out every year or so

You mean all these years I've been living with disillusionment?
How bout Corny as Kansas in August?


Now Deve, I've never claimed to be an all knowing fuel system
guru. I've bought, used, been to, subscribed to, participated in,
joined, many things over my life time that didn't turn out quite
the way I first thought they would.
The Moller glass filters looked like a good idea, but, I used
flared fittings and from making and braking the joint several
times, I had trouble with small leaks there and the rubber seals
didn't hold up either.
Guess I just don't get what your question is about the fuel line
from the tank. Thought I'd explained it bout as best as I could.
You have to have a flexible hose out of the shutoff that is
connected to a hard line that is clamped to the frame.
All of the vendors sell this flex line and the fittings on the
ends are inverted flare, one a swivel fitting.

(Gus, that barb you have screwed into the shut off is a 1/4"npt
right? If that's the original shut off it should have an inverted
flare in the outlet, not 1/4"npt)

Steve, there are as many ways to install a fuel filter as there
are 'Bolters. But it's no more complicated than to pick out a
straight section and cut out enough to fit your throw away in with
a couple pieces of rubber fuel line and hose clamps. Any where
you want it between the tank and fuel pump, your choice. It don't
get much simpler than that.

DG

Yeah, NO. Not alot of Corn here. Lots of Wheat, Milo, Soy, Canola, DIRT. I will not even bother then with those filters. They looked like the perfect idea and its nice when you hear back one way or the other. Thanks everyone!

http://kscorn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2014-Kansas-Corn-Annual.pdf

What was the highest production crop in Kansas in 2014?

Skip to 1:20 minutes, and hum along

Some of the northern KS farmers jumped on the ethanol bandwagon I guess. Around here its wheat and all the other rotation crops. Nebraska is much more corn country than KS. No humming! I will get the song stuck in my head for hours!