The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop gray blue (blue gray) 216/235 engine paint color

I would like to take a poll of opinions on the shade of blue/gray paint that people think a 216 and 235 should be painted (at least the low-pressure 235s).

Here is a page of colors/codes.

From what I have seen/read, 667D94 through 485877 might be what people have shown/described?

Thanks,

Don't be so vain Tim, put your glasses on.
667D95 through 485F77.

And as you've been hearing from me for the past decade, the last
one is the one that is the closest match to what I've found and
it's the shade that The Filling Station has settled on.

Poll your old buddy MT, he's the expert and has scrap
yards overflowing with them.
dg

Since this is a popularity thing...667D95 looks good to me. Not so dark and a bit cleaner looking. Better than the "Blue" I have seen so much of. But what do I know, engine in my truck was painted orange. PO was color blind?

I think I like Denny's darker color better, Steve. But, your vote goes into the mix.

Of course, Denny & I disagree on the color of 1954 and most later (higher pressure) 235 truck engines, but I am here/now interested in consensus/opinions on the darker color.

For most of the later-years (higher pressure) 235 truck engines, I go with the lighter gray that Bill Hirsch and Jim Carter sell.

For those of you who want to be further bored, here is a VCCA member's article about engine colors. The author must be dead because VCCA members now have different opinions (but no facts/documentation). There is/are no known GM paint codes, so anyone's guess is irrefutable/unprovable.

The reason for my asking about that blue-gray color is to choose a background color for low-pressure engine information webpages.

Thanks, and feel free to offer other choices for the dark blue-gray color.

You could use any of the colors shown on the "Dark Colors" row and no one would ever question it...

The engine color will always be a mystery, GM never published the paint code because there was never a need to. In the 1970's and 80's (before internet) the Light Gray was thought to be correct and tons of museum quality restorations were done in that color. Now it seems we were all wrong back then and the correct color seems to be much darker ie. what the Filling Station sells.

From a VCCA Judging standpoint, as long as it's any shade of gray (if it's suppose to be gray) then no points are deducted.

Mike B

I'm building a 261 and decided the Plasti-Kote Universal Gray #202, which I happen to have on the shelf, is good enough. It looks clean and has a hint of blue. But its not one we're considering so disregard my "vote".

.....I'm still holding out that some assembly paint mixer will use his walking cane and hobble forward on this.

Never, never give up, Tim.

All webpage backgrounds were originally painted Ford Gray

Brad

When I pulled the engine out of the 48 2 ton, there were only a couple spots that had any paint left on it. But, those sure looked like one of the shades of Ford tractor gray that I used all the time (they used 3 shades over 40 years) on restorations.
Took a can of VHT engine paint off the shelf (ford grey) and sprayed it on the cleaned up old paint. I think it was a great match.

indoor light
http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/jsdesign2/media/100_0875_zpsa267ae8f.jpg.html

outdoor light
http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/jsdesign2/media/100_0929_zps2e586dc8.jpg.html

Alvin, you should be showing off that 261...paint it either green or yellow based on what year it is! The 261's were never painted gray...

Jim, like I said, NO points deduction for you...looks good

Mike B

I have seen very good examples of original paint on a '48, and two '52 216s, and my eyes detected no hint of blue in the paint. The Filling Station color is dark gray, but in my opinion, not dark enough. I would describe the original color as somewhere between light black and dark gray.
Carl

NOW WE'RE TALKING!

I have posted on here several times that I have seen original paint on these engines/valve covers/ what-have-you that looks very close to the "Pontiac Blue" color by Plasti-Kote. That to me is best characterized as a light blue rather than a gray, but someone in the 50's may have regarded it as being between blue and gray and thence the name.

My vote would be for the lightest (E8FFF) represented on that page, but it is considerably more saturated than that paint chip shown. Of course that chip is a portrayal of colors for HTML text and not really analogous to automotive paint, but it gives an idea.

There is a very good pic someone posted a while back that shows the darker gray too. It is an "exhaust gray" or "dark mud gray" and I have some traces of that on a early '53 splash oiler 235 I have. It IS even darker than the Filling Station paint, with really NO bluish cast, and it in fact has a very flat, matte finish with no glossiness at all.

I have seen just a few Chevy sixes but I have never, EVER seen an "original" one with Gloss Medium Machine Gray or "Ford Gray" like 99.99999% of the guys use!

One of the problems of comparing or choosing colors on a computer/tablet is that all screens show different colors. add to that digital cameras that aren't all the same.
Seriously, have seen the same part green on the LED monitor, blue on the CRT and blue/gray on the smart phone.

There is a 1950 Chevy discussed and shown around the internet that is claimed to be all original and with only 437 miles. Here is a picture of the engine and color:
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums...20Chevy%20Original%20216_zpsn9kgkrn0.jpg

For more pictures and story, google: 1950 Chevy with 437 miles.

RdsLessTaken/Don
http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/RdLessTaken/library/

This truck on EBay appears to have some original stenciling/paint on the valve cover. Hard to ascertain much from the pic, but would be awesome to see in person. I want that truck, BTW.

Couple questions:
1) Tim, why do you believe the later 235s were lighter gray? Not doubting you, just curious what you know.

2) I often wonder if the gray even changed within a model year across plants. If the spec was just "gray," maybe GM was sourcing paint from the lowest bidder...year to year? I doubt those that made those decisions were thinking about nerds like us (read: me) 60 years later who can emotionally invest in such minutae.

I remember years ago working on a 57 chev belair restoration. Owner wanted 100% original. The paint was going to be done in tropical turquois. It was originally that color. The paint color on the car was 5 different shades of TT depending where you got it, ie trunk firewall fender hood etc. Talked to a really good friend that has been restoring chevs for a long time and he said across all assembly plants I believe 12 or 13 of them the only thing the same was the name of the color. It varied from batch to batch assembly place to assembly place. Take it for what it is worth. We quickly got over the headache of finding the correct TT, a fruitless task.

I am unsure the underlying question Tim is asking.
I am sure he knows of the variations of gray that was used from day to day.
I have several NOS parts with original gray and have seen many more and none are exactly the same.
The Filling Station gray is close and taken from an average of NOS parts.

JW51,

I think that at least some high pressure 235s were a lightish gray because the 1954 engines (the first high-pressure truck engines) that I have seen have been painted gray (a relatively light gray with no apparent blue).

Also, I think that GM might have stated blue-gray or bluish-gray if that had been the color; but, in the 1954 Technical Specifications manual, Chevrolet/GM states "the new engine is painted gray". Who knows what shade of gray they were referring to (as we know know, there are at least 50 shades of grey/gray)? I know that I do not know the shade of gray.

Also, the engine-colors article written by the VCCA member (link is in a post above) refers to blue-gray until 1954. From 1954 and after, the 235 engine color was described as gray (or green - go figure). I think that author noticed a change in color in 1954?

It looks like a color change occurred in 1954 (perhaps related to the change from low-pressure to high-pressure oil system).

I also think that there was not an exact color/hue/darkness for earlier blue-gray or later gray - it depended on whatever shade of gray or blue-gray could be mixed when an engine had to be painted in the factory or on the assembly line.

Regarding the Filling Station color being the same as found on NOS parts: what years? Jim Carter and Bill Hirsch state their colors come from NOS parts and/or "unmolested" engines.

We/I will never know, but I am interested here is seeing opinions on the darker blue-gray.

...sometimes I think we see what we want to see. Really. I've been to Jim Carters several times and each time I look at the NOS engine, still in the crate, sitting in his front room, it seems to change colors....which time, light (sunshine or "bulb" light) can change shades and I agree with who said we'd probably never know the real formula.

my opinion...
I've spent 37 years in printing/finishing/dyeing and I don't think I ever saw a "perfect" or "identical" match to the original color standard. I saw some close, but not dead on. We could make "adds" all day long and not hit the target as a dead match. Even using the sophisticated spectro's.
..and as someone suggested, the color may have had a lot to do with who had the lowest bid.....in my profession we OFTEN switched the raw color manufacturer to use a different product that may have even been more costly but supposedly better. That of course, meant we had to "reformulate" the colors!!

...but I like many of you, want the REAL DEAL which we know we will never get. But we keep hoping and where there is hope....the is hope. Oh, by the way. I still like the blue/gray!!

And thanks to all of you who contribute to make this such a nice site.

You make a good point, but years & years of dirt, oil, & grease might have darkened those "original" engines up just a tad. The only original one I've ever seen was what I'd call "Battleship Gray"...

The OP is going to have one heck of a researched & documented webpage background color! (just a reminder for why this is getting discussed again)

Brad

Edit- And...don't read my post wrong--I like the discussion!

The picture of the engine with 400 original miles on it DOES appear to be a medium grey color, I note too that it is the same matte finish as the dark grey I have seen and the "blue-grey" that we seem to have kind of figured out.

Maybe this IS an exercise in finding a standard which simply is NOT a standard at all.

I really want to follow the pattern of what I have seen personally. I am thinking I will do my '55 235 in dark grey and my eventual 261 dressed as a 216 in the bluegrey color LOL. And I will use a dullcoat over the paint too!

When I last layed my eyes on an original engine in original paint in person, It was hard to tell the difference between where the paint stopped and the oily grime on bare cast started.
THAT is the original color: dirty oil-on-cast-gray.
I have recently seen an original 55.2 engine with the original yellow 235 lettering on the valve cover, and the gray was markedly lighter than the AD engines I have seen. You could persuade me to admit a bit of a blue hue in the gray coloring.
Carl

I just went with Bill Hirsch's idea of the right color and have never looked back. Its very much the same as Ford Gray, medium towards dark gray, no blue. I just wish we had ALL the colors for our AD years ironed out better. Interior has always been subjective. Ive even heard arguments over the proper color of Forrester Green. Let alone the other colors that were available. Years ago, I got Bob Adlers kit and it helps, but the color swatches are so old, let alone printed (VERY subjective when it comes to PMS print colors transitioning). If you learn anything new, let us know!

This engine came out of my 53 1/2 ton. It is dirty but it was never repainted. Take it for what it is worth with 62 years old paint. http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/s...0555_zpsd3kcc9oe.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

sstock,

The oil and dirt over the years has darkened to paint, but it looks like many I have seen through the years.

Your second picture of the restored engine looks great, I see just a hint of blue in that gray. One note...the bell housing should also be gray. Bell housings were installed on the engine (so they could be test run) and painted as one unit at the engine plant before they were shipped to the actual body assembly plant.

Mike B

Thanks Mike for the info on the bell housing, much appreciated.
Steve