The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Interiors 49 headliner

why couldn't you use a cardboard head liner as a pattern for some thin abs or pvc sheet cut in two pieces like the cardboard one. if you needed to bend it you could use a heat gun. would that work

The bends are not very severe, so heating probably wouldn't be needed.

If you go this route you will miss out on the shear joy and appreciation of the the wrinkled, ever-changing, misfitting, original cardboard headliner, and all of your closest friends will ridicule you for having a non-original, pretty boy truck... or not, as I don't know your closest friends. Your marginal friends will surely ridicule you.
I am planning on purchasing the cardboard one and trace it on some cardboard stock, but making it over-sized in the trouble areas on my recently installed misfitting one.
I have wondered if GM steam-pressed these cardboard panels into proper shape prior to installation. I cannot imagine some poor sap on the assembly line fighting with the same flat panels which we fight with. The cardboard firewall panels are clearly pressed (maybe steam) into shape prior to assembly.
Carl

No, I don't think there was any pre-forming for the headliners.
Here's an original one, a bit shrunk up and some cracks opening
up, like me, from age but still intact:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/headlinervisor

The main problem that guys have is trying to install them
when the windlace is already or still in the door frame.
I'm sure the head liner was installed before the windlace
on the production line.
dg

thanks . I don't have any friends that would know the difference lol

Denny, have you ever installed one of the reproduction headliners with the free floating center retainer? They come flat and need to be bent in two different planes at the same time, while at the same time you need to keep both halves to stay inside of the center retainer. Very frustrating work. You are correct that you cannot install one with the windlace in place. If the cardboard pieces were preformed, the job would be a breeze. If the assembly guys had to do what we have to do, then it is no wonder why they were drunkards and only lived to reach into their forties.
Carl

Got two of the miss-fits here, one from Classic and one from
JC, both miss cut too small. It appears they're taking the
pattern of one like in mine that has shrunk up over the
past 65 years. And no, I haven't installed them yet, I'd
love to be at that stage because it doesn't look to be
that big of a challenge. There only appears to be a couple
of spots that would present a problem and the ones I've
seen installed, where you didn't have to fight the windlace
appear to work out just fine. Other than being short on
material in some spots.
If you ever run across any documentation to the effect that
they were pre-formed or find a NOS headliner I'd love to see
that as I'm sure a bunch of other's would also.

DG

Yep, that's the way mine looked when I put it up to see how it
was gonna fit Gus. Dint match up very well at all. Damnedest
thing though, they've just kept making them that way for the
decade that I've been back at it, even though everyone is
constantly complaining about them.
I'm a way off from final installation of the headliner as I
said, but it looks like there's gonna be another one of those
unresolved annoyances to tackle that every one is always
complaining about. Oh well, I like a challenge and in the mean
time, I'm keeping my eyes open for a suitable material to
make my own. Might even consider making some forms and try
forming some panel board around it as Carl has suggested may
have been done at GM, but again, I really doubt if the
originals were formed.

DG

I had the same gap on two separate liners I fur based from two different vendors..

But this was back in zero10

Don't know if they fixed the issue or not
Maybe someone who has installed one recently will know.

I did see the same gap on a truck at a car show last year.


I filled the gap
...pic...

Looks very nice Gus, doesn't look like you've had to much
trouble with the 'compound curve' and I don't see any creases.

dg

I admire your positive attitude, DG! Can't wait to see how the master makes this instal painless.
Carl

Painless or not Carl, you can be sure I will document it and
post it here one way or the other.
dg

I just installed the cardboard one in my 49. Took about 30 minutes and fit perfect. It does require two pairs of hands and do not have the windlace installed or you will fight with it.

Good report bz. Please let us know which vendor you got the
headliner from and when it was.
Hopefully the vendors finally got the message and re-cut the
patterns to make up for the shortage of the old one.
dg

Denny, I will have to dig through my receipts as I bought it a couple of years ago and have just now reached the point of installing it. I was ready for a battle based on the feedback here but it went up without a hitch. I screwed the center bow up in place and we slid the cardboard into it and loosely held the edges in place using screws with large washers. Not real tight so it could be flexed into place. My helper was my 86 year old dad. Then I worked my way around with the seal. Link below.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums...600%20Restoration/Interior/Headliner.jpg

Looks real good to me bz, I don't see any kinks, folds, broken
corners or gaping holes.
Still appreciate it if you ever run across the vendor, your
letting us in on it.
Thanks for the pix,

dg

I see bztguy refers to the early screw-in center bow design 47-mid 49, is this the better attachment method for the cardboard? I saved one of the complete assemblies from a parts truck to try. You have a substantial spot welded support beam that this bow then screws into. Overall it appears to be a much sturdier way to mount the cardboard since the center support runs door to door and is about 3" wide. This early cardboard configuration also had the two additional support pieces/buttons that some vendors (not all) sell with the cardboard set. A couple interesting items from a piece of factory headliner (thanks Luke), notice the partial install instructions by date (continuing into 1950) maybe there is more to this install then we know? Thoughts?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/16180717367/in/set-72157631868452754
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/15744122484/in/set-72157631868452754

Geez, I am going to need a headliner for my 47 GMC soon. Not sure what to do.
Thought about just an ABS unit since no one seems to like the original style.
Waiting for you guys to sort out the best option.
Got some time though.

No fair bztguy!
We are whining about the head liners with the free floating center supports. Keeping the two cardboard halves in the floating center support while bending the whole assembly in place is where the "fun" is.
Carl

I have to admit I haven't done the floating type. Sounds like I don't want to!

As I've said before Carl, I ain't at that point on mine '50
yet. Like Bruce posted, gonna let you guys sort out the
problems first.

But the wheels are turning as I look forward to the future.
If keeping the two half's together at the center is the
problem area, then it would only seem logical that some method
of doing that needs to be found. Tape, glue, 3m super weather
strip adhesive, Maxi-cure extra thick CA, or maybe just that
second pair of hands bz mentioned.

dg

DG, I used super-sticky duct tape on the back side after first wrassling with it unsecured for 57 man-hours. I do have a better system now for the next one, but I am still bitter nonetheless.
Carl

Question.....Does the roof of the late '49 Chevrolet trucks have the spot welded support beam just like the early-mid 1949 Chevrolet truck? Trying to determine what center support bow I need. My truck has the channel type wind lace and a center support beam in the roof that is tack spot welded on each end.

You generally don't see the early headliner with the mid-49 door tracks. That being said as shown in my earlier post there appears to be a series of running changes illustrated by the dating on the headliner material (1947- Production start for 1950) if you want to use it you need the screw on bow for the rear headliner hold down and you need a screw on center bow. You will also need the 47-mid 49 cardboard that is made for this application, it has different punched cut outs for the screws. I would put forward the hypothesis that with the number of assembly plants an earlier cab configured like yours could have easily come through as they were used up.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/15744122484/in/set-72157631868452754

Brad,

I have a screw on center bow and a floating center bow. The screw on center bow I removed from the truck is short and does not reach completely from side to side of the headliner. It did not have the end trim pieces that screw to the roof support and their were no screw holes on the ends of the roof support bar for the center bow trim ends. Is this correct? With the center bow not reaching the full length from sis tot side on the headliner it looks unfinished. That is why I thought I would need the floating center bow.

Tim

You got pics?

Carl,

Sorry no pics! I'll try to get some tomorrow. Truck is not in the garage at home. Will post them when I get them.

Tim

Carl,

OK, I've got he pics of the roof support and the wind lace channel. http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums...ortandwindlacechannel004_zpsaf4ab1ed.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums...ortandwindlacechannel003_zps2127de4b.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums...ortandwindlacechannel002_zps010623ff.jpg http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums...ortandwindlacechannel001_zpsed414eed.jpg
Let me know what you think. Floating center bow or screw in center bow?

Thanks,

Tim

It looks like someone either added the early '49 center support bracket to the roof (my bet), or someone added the windlace channel around the door opening.
You have two choices:
1) Go with the floating center for the headliner.
2) Remove the c-channel and try to find a good used screw-on set of early style windlace retainers (hard to find), and new early style windlace.
What shape was your floor board in when you started? Early '49s had two extra floor mat retaining buttons near the seat riser toward the outside.
How original are you going for?
Carl

Carl,

Don't have the two extra buttons to the outside of the seat riser you are talking about. I looked real close at the center roof support and they appear to have the original spot welds. In other words, didn't see any signs of tack welding or bead welding. The wind lace channels also seem to have factory original spot welds. Do I have an anomaly or a mutant truck....or maybe a mid year where the assembly plant just used what they had? Will the floating bow fit with the center support in the roof?

Thanks for your help!

Tim

Anyone else ever run into this headliner situation? Center roof support and channel type wind lace retainers.....Floating center bow or screw in center bow? Want to keep the truck as original as possible. Advice and suggestions that will keep me on that path are welcome.

Tim

Tim
I am not sure if this helps answer your question or not but here is a picture of the un-restored '49 GMC showing the center support and ceiling panel. '49 ceiling panel Note the four pin supports for the rear panel.
Mike

Mike,

Now I have another question......What did those 4 pin buttons on the rear panel attach to? The GMC truck must have had support channels that went from the center support channel to the rear of the cab? Still not sure if I need to use the floating center bow or the screw on center bow. I spent an hour last evening looking at the 1947-1954 Factory "CONFUSION" manual and still did not find an answer. From the manual it appears that all the trucks had a floating bow?

Anyway....thank you for the photos of the '49 GMC. Interesting further facts!!

Tim

If you don't have the extra floor mat buttons, then you very likely have a late 49 cab with a hold over screw-on center support bracket which was not utilized. I'd go with a floater.
Carl

Tim
The 49 truck was not mine so I don't know what the pins attached to. I like Carl's idea.
Mike

Here is a shot of the original bracket the pins go into. They push in and then fold over like the old binder brads. Some but not all vendors sell this type of headliner for the screw in center bow cardboard sets. American Classic Parts is one that does. The original bracket sets are quite rare now as most original headliners are long gone.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/16449458856/in/set-72157631868452754
The screw-on weatherstrip and "T" is not designed for the weld on tracks. You are trying to mix two different assemblies, I believe Carl was on the right track, pick one. The way your truck is configured is really for the floating center bow based on your weatherstrip.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/9531186115/in/set-72157631868452754
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/9531186671/in/set-72157631868452754
One more item to check and date your cab. You will notice there is a hole in the dashboard (upper LH corner to remove the screw in the weatherstrip. There is one on the RH in the same location.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8625359671/in/set-72157631870734114
Trucks built after mid-49 I have not found to have these holes and they have the spot welded channels.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8130538304/in/set-72157631870734114

Carl and Brad,

Thank you for ALL your help with my headliner dilemma. I tried the headliner yesterday fitting it temporarily and found that the floating bow would not clear the center roof support. If I trim the front cardboard then the floating bow would clear the center roof support, but then the rear cardboard comes up short in reaching the floating bow. I ordered the late 1949 headliner from Bowtie Bits so I am guessing I have the correct headliner. It was manufactured by Repops and is labeled late 1949 on both sections. When I tried the front section it fit perfectly and the slotted holes in the back side aligned perfectly with the screw holes in the center roof support. Think I need to go with the screw in center bow? The screw in center bow I have seems to be short and does not tuck under the rubber wind lace. Is it suppose to fit under the wind lace? If not, should the screw in center bow have something on the ends to make it look finished? Sorry for all the questions....but I'm just trying to figure this out with the limited reference materials I have. You guys have been a GREAT help with a bunch of information!!

Tim

Tim,

I kinda feel like I am repeating myself but here goes. You are mixing two different assemblies here. The tracked weatherstrip uses the floating bow. It just ends at the cardboard it does not tuck or attach to anything. The screw in bow finishes with the "t's" but the weatherstrip is different than what you have. It sounds like you have late 49' cardboard which is different than the earlier version. In light of the interference with the welded in bow have you thought about removing it?

Brad,

I have thought about removing the center support in the roof, but that leaves me wondering why it was installed in the cab originally. I also question as to why the late 1949 cardboard headliner panels produced today have screw reliefs at the back side if the floating center bows require no screws. I made note from your earlier post that there were different configurations of headliners based upon months and year of production. Is it possible that the reproductions of headliners made today are simply grouped together in either 1947-early 1949 and late 1949 with no consideration for possible mid year production? This truck has been a bit confusing as I found I have an early 1949 glove box configuration with the metal retaining band. I tried the late 1949 glove box and the liner didn't even come close to fitting the opening. The early glove box liner fit perfectly and all the screw holes in the dash also lined up. Is it possible I have a truck that utilized early and late configurations based upon what was available on the production line at the time?

I recall when I did the frame off restoration on my 1958 Chevrolet Biscayne that I ran into fitment issues with outside door handles and wrong emblems attached to the car. I finally got to talk to a production line worker that worked for GM during that era and Mike with Auto City Classics. Both of them told me that it didn't matter what the VIN # designated concerning trim items. Because of the economic climate in 1958 the production facilities used what ever trim items were available on the day of production. My 1958 VIN tag indicated that this car was equipped with a 348 cu.in. engine with 2 four barrel carburetors, heavy duty suspension, standard transmission, and base trim. The 348 cu. in. with 2 four barrel carburetors or the tri-power set up was RARE and generally only used in law enforcement vehicles, know as an interceptor engine. My confusion was that the car had 6 cylinder emblems on the hood and trunk and no indication of the 348 cu.in. engine that was usually designated with the double cross flags on the rear quarter panels. In the process of the frame off restoration I found the original registration receipt under the rear seat. The 1958 Biscayne was originally registered to the the City of Wichita, Kansas in Nov. of 1957. As the media blasting company stripped the car, they called me to come take a look before they completed the job. When I arrived they found under the white paint that the car had been painted black with white doors and the out line of a star decal on each door. Under the black and white was the original color gold paint. Police vehicle? .....to this day, I still am not certain. When I did the upholstery as I uncovered the back seat the previous owner had his wife made corduroy seat covers, under the corduroy seat cover was a plain black vinyl seat cover and then the original factory upholstery. Another indication of a law enforcement vehicle?

Another situation with this car was that the outside door handles I ordered from a reputable vendor, did not fit the contour of the doors. I then was put in contact with Mike at Auto City Classics. Mike informed me that the door handles I received were probably for the Impala. He further went on the explain to me that ALL door contours on the 1958 Chevrolet line of cars were different. Mike explained that most vendors were selling a generic 1958 outside door handle that would not fit the different models. In short, he sent me NOS door handles that fit perfectly.

I'm sorry if I sound like I ranting and am probably over thinking this whole process, but I'm just trying to learn what I have. I know...as Carl said, "Just pick one."

Thanks again for your patience and ALL your help with this!!

Tim

In reading your post today while you said the headliner you purchased says late 49' it is obviously not as it has screw holes. The correct headliner for the floating bow does not have screw holes on that edge. I still think the only option with your door weatherstrip is the floating bow. You will need to source the correct headliner for that application. As for why the other is in place I think you answered your own question. It is the vagaries of production and sitting here some 60+ years later some things we will never know.