The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop HEI conversion

The link i just posted is a typo it should be 150. He sells them in black and red and both are out of stock. just go to the sites main page and type 235 in the search bar and the two distributors will show up.

Toms is not a pertronix module or related to pertronix anything. Its a 100% GM original distributor with 100% gm interior parts that has been milled to fit the hole in a inline 6.

Its not $150 at the web site. ITS $1500. ONE THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED. I am so disappointed its out of stock! LOL!

I know Toms is 100% original GM. And I know its very nicely machined to fit the 261. I like Tom. But is it based on the same principle as the Pertronix Flamethrower, or the module, or.. is the cap MUCH larger to accommodate the radius needed to keep such a High Energy Ignition from arcing?

I am trying to get to the real answers here, without bias, without favor. What is the best ignition bar none and why? No attacking, no stupid [censored] contests. Just a simple answer that seems to completely go right over everyones head. I wish I had the brain power to understand the human condition and why its so hard for people to be objective. Someone. Anyone?

I think everyone here is giving you a non bias answer. People are telling you what works for them. People are listing possible drawbacks for each system and why others setups might be better than others.

If i never had issues with my worn out old points i would still be running them and swear by them. Like i said before, I had pertronix installed and it ran great but i don't want to be down waiting for a possible module or special coil if mine fails. I then switched just about 4 hours ago to the GM HEI system from tom and I'm speechless. I am doing up my own thread about the install in a few min. Keep an eye out for it.

Deve,

I have a petronnics unit in my dist.,have been runnung it for 6 yrs without a problem with the matching coil. The reason that I changed from points was My verticle situation. I am verticaly challenged (short) and my 59 has big high fenders that made it very hard for me to reach the points. I will continue to use it.

Langdons mini HEI is a gm factory HEI distributor from a 2.8 engine that has some external modifications. The internal parts are all available just about anywhere. These were made and used in millions of cars and trucks and are very reliable.

What is the best, Well that would be conjecture. The question is in your head, so is the answer. What do YOU THINK IS BEST, AN AFTERMARKET (PERTRONNICS), or a factory design with probably millions of dollars r+d behind it in addition to Billions of miles of usage.

Just remember this, anything can break, and will at sometime or another.

If I had to choose what to use again, I would use Tom Langdons mini HEI, why, because it is a GM factory part and I know that in the event that I had a problem the parts are available just about anywhere.

Hope this helps you with your quest for knowledge on the ignition question.

Thanks guys. I don't mean to be persistent, well, yes I do, but from an engineering perspective, the modifications to old distributors I have seen look alot like the Pertronix module.. evidenced here:

http://www.greasygringo.com/2012/06/59-chevy-hei-conversion/

Jason did an amazing job, but what I am not seeing from his or Toms modifications is that large diameter ugly distributor cap purportedly made that way because of the high energy aspects of the system and without it, arcing would occur.

So, thats why I keep persisting here. I wonder if we are talking about two completely different animals. One is an electronic points conversion that runs our Stovebolts just fine due to the low rpms we run at. The other is a true High Energy Ignition that handles the higher rpm engines better???

The latter would be a great install into the Stovebolt engine and would run just fine, only it's not really needed because our engines don't benefit from it's higher RPM design. Maybe?

Thanks for all your patience! I can't wait to see your writeup wolf. More knowledge is always better than less!

I think thats a wrong price typed on there, I paid 159.99 with free shipping to pennsylvania...you may have to call them, they are real nice on the phone

Arcing will not accure just because the cap is small, look at Summit Racing for any High output ignition and 90% of them use the small diameter cap. And if you read the parts list in the greasygringo link, he used a GM HEI module, not Pertronix.

The small 2.8L electronic distributor seen in your link is not a HEI, it was a computer controlled unit that is easily modified. All HEI distributors use a big cap. Some of the six cylinder models used a short cap with coil mounted to the engine, but still the same diameter cap as the other models.

Whats with all the high rpm talk, the HEI wasn't designed as a race distributor, we only stated that it will run 6000 rpm and stay dead steady, just making a point about how good of a unit they are. 99.9% of them were for everyday cars and trucks, so why would your engine be any different. The true benefit is how easy the engines start and how smooth the idle is. They have higher output at lower rpm then a points system, so you can gap the plugs out for a bigger spark, which most of the time, makes for a better running engine.

Once up and running, a good set of points will equal a HEI in spark at the plugs, both types provide more energy then is needed to jump a plug gap. HEI will stay steadier at higher rpm, but the points will still go just as high, maybe jumping around a bit as they do it though.

I use HEI because if it ever does fail, I can find a replacement part in any town in the USA, any day of the week. As a side note, I have carried the same spare module I pulled out of a junk yard 25 years ago. Its been in five different glove boxes and still not been needed.

Joe

Joe, if I wanted to purchase one, where would I buy it?

Hoozat, the problem I have with vendor web sites displaying a wrong price with this kind of difference.. $1350 dollars different, is that if they are scamming, they can charge your card the full amount. When you complain about it, they can point to their website. As a business owner I can relate. Its an egregious mistake on their part. If they change that number very soon, all of us will just pass it off as a typo. It leaves a bad taste in ones mouth and I am sure its something they don't need.

After all these posts, I am still hoping for someone to tell us where to purchase this mythical GM HEI distributor for the 261 engine. I want one!!

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850042/overview/make/Chevrolet

John

Is this what you are looking for?

Should have been a U instead of an O..... John

I edited the link to Summit, hopefully it'll work now.

John

YES!! Thanks John! We now have Pertonix, Jason, Tom Langdons, and real GM. Can't ask for more. I think we have finally arrived!Thanks!

Works now!
That is the large cap HEI.
My link above is for the mini.

http://www.ebay.com/usr/theswapmeetparts?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 Go to "See Store",and you will find the216/235/261 (ACCEL) dizzy,for $159.00. Dizzy with wires,$195.00. This applies to the 261. I bought one,and I am PLEASED with it!! Your search is OVER!! Over 7,000 Transactions,since 1990,and still...100% Customer Satisfaction!! Choice of red or black,cap and wires. THREE-YEAR WARRANTY!! FREE SHIPPING!! He ACCEPTS MONEY ORDERS!! No TYPO'S!! No Identity Theft!! PAYPAL NOT NEEDED!! He supplies a set of wires,for what the competitors charge for a similar unit,without the wires.! Forget E Bay! Call Dan: (201)456-0391 Hope this helps!

After some looking and sorting it would appear that there is Pertronix, and this one from Mallory:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mallory-Ignition-4518001-49-62-Chevy-6-Cylinder-Electronic-Distributor,6904.html
I also found one other, that states no iron distributors with mechanical advance:
http://www.hot-spark.com/1-3DEL6V1.htm
Why is not clear. So you have some choices.
1, Modify a GM HEI,
2, Pertronix,
3, Spend big dollars (400 for the Mallory)
4, Use points
5, Take a chance with the "Hot Spark" thing.

Questions that come to mind. 1, Looks, you get to work that one. 2, Reliability, That should open the flood gates. 3, Availability, Stock parts can be bought at FLAPS, Proprietary can only be bought from the manufacture. Includes, Pertronix, Mallory, And Hot Spark. So in conclusion?
Opinion coming, Points are reliable and available. Looks, I like the stock dizzy. The Mallory is good looking as well, but at 400 dollars it ain't that good looking. Performance, Would I even notice if the best of these gave me 2, or 3 horsepower? Uh...no. With a modified engine, maybe. For me and me alone, I will keep my points. Your truck you decide. And on the HEI v. Pointless argument? HEI is a magnetic pickup. Mallory is a magnetic pick up. Pertronix is a magnetic pick up. Advantage to the HEI? Coil is in the cap. No loss from a lead. If I wrong, and I have been lots of times show me. I like to learn.

Crane, Mallory, Accel, Hot Spark, Pertronix and I am sure there are more make these Chingaderas that go into the stock distributor. From all of the reviews I could find, they all use the Hall Effect, magnetic pickup except for Crane which uses an optical sensor. Reviews say optical sensors are inferior. The Mallory and Pertronix distributors basically just have those modules in them, I suspect that's what Tom is doing too. I know that's what Jason's setup is. The higher end ones have rev limiters incorporated in them, but those don't appear to be available for our 6 bangers.

I may be wrong, but then it becomes a matter of brand and what you feel is the most reliable. GM? Mallory? Pertronix? Tom Langdon? Etc etc. So, now I see why this is such a subjective subject. Because they are all basically the same? I like the stock look, so I want the coil separate. That narrows my choices a bit. I guess if you purchase one pertronix module and one to go on, you will have the spare parts you need in case of a failure.

What did I say.

I have Tom's first mini Hei and it's still going strong. He also sells a full size reman GM Hei, really good price.

Just dropped in for a visit after a long while away. I'm so glad my article is going to good use! I had fun doing it.

So I thought I'd add a few things. . .

• My goal was really just to replace an item that required regular service (points) with a contactless mechanism that does not (magnetic pickup).
• I find that the points really bounce around and give an erratic idle unless everything is just perfect and you can find a quality set of points with the right spring pressure and contact faces that are actually square.
• I wanted easier starting and got it. By a long shot.
• I didn't want to spend a lot of money. I didn't have to.
• The whole job took an evening in the shop with a few beers while my buddy worked on his '50 BSA land speed record bike. Fun.
• I now run .050 point gaps and the plugs stay a lot cleaner.
• GM style HEI modules run less than $20 at auto parts and online places everywhere. I carry an extra in my tool kit in case this one burns out. I used the stock plug so it'd take all of five minutes to change out. So far, no need to do so.
• I believe the greatest benefit (not often discussed) to electronic coil control/management is the fact that the module energizes the coil for the right duration at all rpms. Leads to a cooler coil and more stable ignition. Points, using dwell (expressed as angles of rotation), over-saturate the coil at low rpms and under-energize it at higher rpms.
• The contactless trigger mechanism takes shaft wear and play out of the equation. These lead to inconsistent timing and dwell with points.
• Everyone should own a lathe. Even if it's just a bench top model. There's no end to what you can do or make with one.

So far it's been working great and makes the truck much more enjoyable.

Jason

So Jason, since you have no time to make them for us, what does your instinct tell you as far as the best alternative? Its okay.. just come right out and say it! LOL!

There are gaps in the information in this thread. And I am falling victim. One of the confusions comes from... Tom Langdon makes an HEI system. Yes? So, what does GM have to do with it? If GM sold one, we would just get it there. So, I assume he is retrofitting GM HEI's into older vintage distributors so we can enjoy the benefits. Yes? So, did GM sell a Mini HEI, AND a huge ugly one? Or is the mini Toms creation? I think Tom is a great guy and will probably get my business, but as everyone knows, GM's first HEI's left a lot of people stranded. They just weren't engineered correctly. I will never forget everyone griping they wanted their points back. So are the modules Tom is using real GM and are they AFTER the debacle?

Pre68Dave.. I get it, but I DONT get it. I want off the shelf parts I can replace without calling anyone.. available at the local NAPA, OReillys, Autozone, etc. I am not a fan of PROPRIETARY. I want the ONE that gets me on the road the fastest in a crisis. And the thing about it, is EVERYONE wants that unless they fell off the cabbage truck. So, NO, there should be NO competition for the ONE solution that uses off the shelf parts. Since we have established that one hall effect, magnetic pickup electronic module is NO better then the other, we have to look at reliability.. same.. availability.. different. I vote for Jason to change his mind and make them for us. But if that doesn't happen.. where are we then?

Deve, I can only suspect you are not reading all of the responses on this thread. It has been explained that Tom used a 2.8 V6 distributor. He modifies the shaft, housing, and installs a correct gear for a 216,235,261. I can not say if he is using GM modules or after market. This brings up a point I have been thinking about while reading all of the posts. Most of the parts people are buying to replace or rebuild these HEI distributors are made in China. Most people do not pay the higher price for GM replacement parts. So how reliable are these parts?

Oh, I am reading every word. Then I am going to everyones web sites to see exactly what they have to say. But your question is a concern. Also, this brings up a SPEC issue. They are using a china replacement, but if I purchase a replacement GM part, will it still work? But I am happy anyway if I CAN replace china with GM actual.

People want reliability, but since they don't usually think any further, go with proprietary, then complain they will NEVER EVER go to HEI again when their Pertronix dies and leaves them stranded. So, Stovebolters are here to help!! We need to recommend:

a) reliable alternatives to points
b) easy to source parts to replace faulty parts.

Not necessarily in that order. To me, there is NO subjectivity here. Unless two sources both use genuine GM replacement parts. Then we recommend both or either. Usually, it either IS or it ISNT. Lets find out. I have heard you say before Dave that you recommend Pertronix to your customers. This tells me that we are talking about a very small difference in reliability here because I feel you know your stuff. But if you were to recommend to the KING an HEI what would it be? Anyone who thinks this issue is subjective, lets get out the microscope and really get down to the most minute detail. That's the HEI I want. It will NEVER cease to amaze me all the talking you have to do, to finally get the REAL answer. But I am patient.

I have used both large HEI and Tom's mini HEI. The truck I used the large HEI on had a fined aluminum side cover. The large HEI would not clear the fins without grinding them down.
The mini HEI works fine and looks okay but it does not look stock. For one it uses a completely different looking vacuum advance, and the plug wires do not connect or look the same. Nit picking I know, but in most cases I like the stock look.
When I questioned the reliability of China parts for HEI's I was weighing those against the reliability of the Pertronix. Both can have problems. I personally have not seen a HEI or a Pertronix fail. I have seen the rotor burn through grounding the spark on HEI's but that is all.
I really think the problem with most Pertronix failures is from incorrect installation. One really needs to dig deep and understand wiring and resistance to get the correct info and installation.

Did you ever figure this crud out? Any progress at all?

Could you elaborate?

Yikes, public forum = more opinions

I have another old project vehicle I like to zip around in and when I got it, it had a dead Pertronics module in it. I knew the folks I bought the car from and I'm pretty sure they fried it troubleshooting a fuel delivery problem.
To get the engine running again I put std points/condenser in it and with a lot of other work got it running pretty good.
I found a very good deal on a Hot Spark dist and decided to gamble on it. No particular reason, just in the "throwing $$$'s" at the car stage I rekon
It's been 2 yrs and perhaps 10k miles since without a peep of ignition trouble.
It's MHO that good clean "power" i.e. voltage and current is essential to these electronic modules longevity and dependability.
Reverse the polarity and "bang" it's fried. Arc the power to the ign circuit and "bang" it's fried. Low battery and overworking charging system and "bang" it's fried...

Anyways, I'm still running points on my 216 but weighing ign options on the 235 I'm building so this is a good thread.

My 49 216 starts within a few spins, idles & runs great, doesn't miss, accelerates smoothly out of turns and pulls hills impressively for a 90hp power plant. All w/a stock OEM 6v ign system.

Anyways just MHO and ramblings on this long thread
Dave

I was curious which route the op chose. There's 7 pages on an hei conversion thread. That's all

Volf I am with you. I have a 261 and I am looking for a trouble free HEI solution. I have four titanium rods, 13 screws and 2 plates in my lower back making it very hard to reach over the fenders when it's finally together. HEI is something I shouldn't have to mess with as often. But which one? I am not one to take much from opinion, rather, lets do some math here and drill down into the best engineered, least troublesome, longest lasting solution.

The HEI I pick after listening intently here and doing some research will:

1) Use geniune GM parts, or comparable and they must be available at most local parts stores.

2) Look as stock as possible, using a separate RESISTOR coil. (I never understood why GM thought it was okay to put this big honkin ignition resistor on the firewall so the heat can ruin the paint underneath rather than engineer a system with the PROPER resistance values.)

3) It must have magnetic pickup as opposed to optical, and the parts need to be made for the long haul.

4) It must be engineered with protection from arcing, overvoltage, reverse voltage, etc. That's called a Zener Diode and they are cheap, so NO idea why they would even sell anything they know isn't customer proofed.

With those things in mind, where are we as far as a place to purchase this solution? What do I have to compromise yet how about we keep THAT list as short as possible!

The ideal ignition system you're demanding is not available, and as you describe it, it wouldn't work anyway. Get over yourself and learn to modify the readily-available HEI unit for the late-1970's 230/250 engines.
Jerry

This is the one I used.
It is made in USA for a 250 then machined and modified to fit a 235 / 261. The module is a performance unit burned specifically for the 235 / 261. The mechanical advance curve is tailored for the 235 /261, and it has adjustable vacuum advance.
The seller / store owner answered all my questions immediately and is a distributor expert, very knowledgeable.
Shipping was super fast, I ordered online on Sunday and it was on my doorstep in Canada on Thursday, well protected in a proper box, with 2 form fitted Styrofoam halves. It is a legit company.
As mentioned before, if you have a finned pushrod cover some fins will need to be ground down for the cap to clear. I prefer the large cap version because it allows for a bigger, more powerful coil. The one this distributor comes with is 62,000 volts, twice the voltage of stock, and MUCH higher than MSD, Pertronix, Mallory or any other performance coil.
Set your plug gap to .045-.060 and use 8.5 mm high quality wires, I used his, they are top quality Packards.

We all want a perfect part but i got news for you! No one can make or sell you anything with a 100% no fail guarantee. New 2014 car parts fail, old parts fail, parts worth thousands of dollars fail. People keep giving you answers to you over and over and you ask the same questions again and again.

Hate to say it buddy but I think its safe to say the majority of parts found in cars find their way from over seas no matter if its domestic car or not. Electronics parts are known for that.

Your looking for a 100% GM made HEI unit, Full Gm module, full GM housing, full GM everything with a full gm price for your block? try your local dealer and see what they have to say.

Someone else can chime in but was the 261 ever made with a HEI system from the factory? for any year of inline 261? If they did GM can get you want you need.

I will give it another shot here because work is slow and I am bored.

Tom gets a GM distributor from some sort of source. If its a new unit off the shelf or fully rebuilt unit off the shelf or a unit from a junk yard I do not exactly know. What application the distributor came off of for your 261 i don't know either, I just know what the 235 modified ones come from. The one I just got from him looked rebuilt to me. Hard to tell the difference it was very well done.

He takes it all apart and spins the body on a lathe to reshape the shaft housing to fit your application. He then installs a drive gear on the shaft to also suit your application.

He puts it all back together with a NEW cap and rotor and what looks like a new vacuum advance. The module in mine has a nice big raised area on it that says GM molded right into the plastic.

He then gets a new HEI coil that is a GM equivalent that will meet and or exceed the original equipment specifications and puts that next to your rebuilt and modified distributor.

He then gives them both a little kiss and tucks them away in the shipping box all nice and tight in non GM packing material.

I think the options for your application have been laid out nicely from the site members. We have all chipped in fully explaining the pros and cons to each.

#1 Stay 100% Stock.
Pros:
-Looks Stock
-You can still find 100% GM parts on ebay, can also buy some after market non GM parts at local shops
-Can also buy fully rebuilt units
-You can make fun of people with aftermarket system because your still running stock and yours is working fine

Cons:
-Components can fail
-Harder to find parts at times
-Needs minor adjustments at times

#2 Stock Distributor with Pertronix Installed
Pros:
- Looks almost 100% stock
-No need to adjust points again
-You get to make fun of people running stock systems because you never have to touch points again.

Cons:
-Components can fail
-Cost of the unit is about $100
-Cant roll into a local shop and find a unit for replacement
-Need to ensure your running the right coil separate resistor and or correct coil with internal resistor and that adds more $$$ to the purchase price.

#3 Modified small cap HEI from any vendor
Pros:
-Parts that can fail like the caps, rotors, vacuum advance, internal modules, and coils can be purchased at any local store.
- I'm going to claim better performance due to higher voltages, and the ability to open the gap in the plugs to get a better burn
-Some like the modified more modern component look on their ride
Can get optional coil to stay with that stock cylinder coil look.
- You can make fun of people who still run stock and others who wasted time and money on Pertronix (note I was once a Pertronix owner lol)
-Can possibly offer some adjustability

Cons:
-Components can fail
-Cost of a full unit is about $200
-Need a bracket to mount the stand alone coil
-Some say you can arc in the cap (have yet to read or see proof on a inline 6 that only revs around 3000rpm)
-Not 100% stock looking but almost is.

#4 Modified large cap HEI from any vendor
Pros:
-Parts that can fail like the caps, rotors, vacuum advance, internal modules, and coils can be purchased at any local store
- I'm going to claim better performance due to higher voltages, and the ability to open the gap in the plugs to get a better burn
-Some like the modified more modern component look on their ride
-Coil is located on distributor so no bracket needed
-Can possibly offer some adjustability

Cons:
-Components can fail
-Cost of a full unit is about $200
-Some say you get no arc in cap
-Not stock looking


Did i miss any options? People have told you who can provide these options. Its not up to us to tell you to go buy the stuff from that's a choice you need to make. Companies on ebay can vanish overnight, health and other issues can cause others to leave the business, dealers choose to not carry older or certain parts anymore. Your never going to catch this white rabbit you keep chasing.

I say this thread could be locked after that, as it has been all explained.

I wonder what the expensive Mallory distributor has inside it. Maybe they used off the shelf common parts. They don't make a module like Pertronix does. It may be necessary to take another look at Jasons offering since it does use standard off the shelf parts, just need to purchase a lathe to do it. That is the closest to stock look I have seen too.

Its funny how defensive some people get when others are trying to find the best answer for something and they don't know. If you don't know, you don't have to type stuff! Goes to show you, the self appointed experts here have a lot to learn as well. Lots of talk, but no answers. One says, go get a 250 distributor and modify it.. as if we are all qualified to do that, the other says we don't need to talk about this anymore! LOL! Move on then! Meanwhile, I will call Mallory and see whats inside theirs, and try and get further info from Jason on how to retrofit OUR (already purchased) distributor with a module that uses off the shelf parts. Jasons uses the stock 12v resistor coil and pretty much hits everything I listed before the peanut gallery started in.

I wish you could post pictures on here from your computer, but I can't figure anyway to do it..... John

No 261 came with HEI. I believe HEI came out around 1973 or 74...
John

just to confuse things even more, I saw on ebay the other day an old 60's Mallory magneto, they only wanted $1000 for it. would have loved to have it to go with the wayne head. But they wanted $1000 for it.

Jason, if you read this, please check your PMs. I think yours is about the best option if they can be made at a reasonable cost.