The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Timing 235 new 4 me

I've worked on a number of 216s over the years and never had any problems setting the timing according to the good advice on this site, and without a timing light or any other mamsy pamsy devices. I've assumed that I must be pretty fantastic.
Now I have my newly installed 235 in place of the cracked-block 216, and it runs just terrible. It has all the signs of poorly adjusted timing. It runs hot, it has no gumption, on the road it feels consistently like it is bogging down. It doesn't start so well.

My wife is worried. When the truck runs bad, when it is so close to running well, it affects my normally sunny disposition. I would really like to get it on the road tomorrow - a big happy summer holiday in Sweden.

I set the initial timing according to a recent post from Hot Rod Lincoln, timing mark on the flywheel and the opening of the points. I've been tweeking the timing both this way and that with a consistent result in that every adjustment makes it worse.

So I am probably too far advanced, eh? To retard one turns counterclockwise, right? Advancing the timing makes the engine run faster, right? I am just enough frustrated so that I can't think clearly. I hope someone out there is less frustrated.

Thanks for letting me vent

Karl

The distributor couldn't be off a tooth?? Usually you have a slight ping when going up a hill on a "hard" pull....

John

A tooth? You mean the cam is off a tooth? The distributor can only be off 180 degrees, isn't that right? The distrubutor has been out but I haven't had the motor in pieces, I haven't toudhed the cam. The motor ran fine in its last home, a 53 panel truck. It has stood for two or three years.

When inserting the distributor it is possible to get its gear off a tooth from where it should be.
John

Do you have a vacuum gauge that you can connect to the wiper vacuum fitting on the intake manifold?

If you have a vacuum gauge:
- attach the vacuum gauge
- start the engine and warm it up, if you can (or start/run the engine and do the adjustments below - then, run the engine until warm, and then do the adjustments again)

- set the idle speed (about 500 rpm, or whatever suits you)
- adjust/rotate the distributor to achieve maximum vacuum
- adjust the carburetor mixture-screw to maximum vacuum.

These adjustments will get real close on the timing and on the carburetor mixture.

Sounds like from what you describe you have a pretty good idea how to do the timing. Not much difference between how it is on the 216 and the 235 engines.
Advancing the timing doesn't make an engine run faster, up to a point it usually helps get a bit better gas mileage. To far advanced and you have spark knock...

John

Just now I am less sure than ever about the timing. I thought the distributor had to engage the oil pump and that it can only go one of two ways. No matter where the distributor lands in its gear, it ought to work as meant as long as first cylinder fires when it should. Am I missing something?

if it starts your close.

how are you advancing?
with octane sensor?
or by loosening the body clamp and turning the body?


tcledermans recommendations helped me.

I've tried both. I set the initial with the body clamp and then screwed it up worse with the octane adjustment. The screw on the body clamp has its head to the rear, so it is a bother. I ought to reverse it.
I did drive in to town today, but it took forever to get up to 50. I stopped and changed the timing and idle any number of times. I felt lucky to get home.
At idle should I expect the spark advance to be in its most extreme retarded position?
I'll be reading the answer in the morning, just now it is late here.

the Vac gauge would really help you

here my example
...click...

you could see the needle jumping at first when it not adjusted.

then I set the idle.

screw on the Back of carb is the mixture screw.
others can do this by ear
not me

Organ builder, how are you setting the timing?

You can do the mixture adjustment pretty well by ear, but I prefer setting to maximum vacuum at idle, as nicely shown by DAS50.

You cannot do the timing adjustment by ear. If you set the timing to maximum engine-speed by ear, that is not a good timing setting (someone who knows, will indicate if it is too advanced or too retarded when/if you set timing to maximum idle-speed by-ear).

Not sure how Dad did it on my 235, but he set the timing without a timing light or vacuum gauge. Engine idled like a dream and pickup speed without a miss or a cough. I have to believe back in the day there were many shade tree and driveway mechanics that lacked a timing light or vacuum gauge. I know he always set the advance so it had just a slight ping on an uphill pull.
Not to say if you have a vacuum gauge and or a timing light use them by all means.

John

I don't suppose the valves could be sticking in it?? Are you getting any backfire from it??

John

John,

Setting the timing to a ping on an uphill pull is a time-honored technique which results in an excellent setting.

About you question about the oil pump, with the distributor out, you can turn the oil pump to any position with a screwdriver.

Just to let you all know, I know you are all waiting to hear, I really wanted to use the truck today. So I started from the beginning with a good initial timing this morning. Then I checked the workings of the distributor and spark advance on my 41 Chev. Suddenly I figured out the obvious - one advances the timing by turning the distrubutor counterclockwise.
Maybe, just maybe, I won't forget that again.
So I gave the distrubutor a little advancing (instead of retarding like I must have been doing all the days before). Voilá it is running fine. I've been out all day with it. There is more to do, but it is running much better. Thanks for the advice, all

Karl

Try "Clockwise, retard." (My apologies to the mentally challenged.) The left hand drill bit box in my shop has "Left hand, stupid." written in bold letters. BTW, I am not mentally challenged, my mom had me tested.