The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Rope seal woes

I am preparing a 235 from 1953 to replace the cracked 216 in my 53 half-ton. The 235 has been leaking from the rear, and since I have it on a stand at the moment it seemed like a good time to replace the rear seal and check the main bearings. I removed all the main caps so the crank was easy to lift a little and the new seal went in nicely. I torqued the front caps down, trimmed the new upper half a little proud, torqued the rear cap, and then plastigaged the main caps one at a time, leaving the rear main for the last. By the time I took the rear cap off the new upper half of the rope seal had already retracted back up the groove just a little.
I had ordered two sets of rope seals from a supplier here in Sweden. My "new" seals are some sort of NOS made by National Seal (part number 5419!) Today I took off the rear bearing cap again just to see what would happen if I tried to push the new upper seal deeper into the groove, to compact it, and it went in at least an eighth of an inch on both ends. It was still easy to turn the crank even with the cap back in place.
So the first question is, should I replace the upper rope again, leave a little more excess, and force it into the groove with the crank in place?
The second question is, while removing the front bearing cap I seem to have ruined the gasket that was heavily glued between the cap and the timing cover base plate. How can I reinstall that bearing cap without removing the harmonic balancer and all that paraphanelia? I have the extra gaskets, can I take the proper one and use just the lower half between the cap and that plate, and a little gasket goop?
Many of these moments are first timers for me...
Karl

When installing a new rope seal I have used a round piece of pipe to roll the seal into the groove, it takes some time but you can get the seal worked all the way in. I would also recommend using the plastigauge before you install the rear mail seal.

The crank wasn't removed, it was only lifted about an inch at the rear. It would have been a pretty small piece of pipe. I would have expected the crank itself when torqued down to seat the seal pretty well.

I think pushing the ends of the seal back into the block was a mistake. I would suggest putting a new half in there.

The front gasket I don't believe is a big deal. The pan seals on the bearing cap and that gasket helps seal between the cap and the plate. You can put RTV on the cap/plate joint when you are installing the pan. Putting half the gasket on is not a problem either.

I forget who we have to thank for this photo documentation of a rear main seal installation (I think it is courtesy of Sweet) but this is some great info. Rear main seal installation "leakproof"

I expect to change that upper half again, the question is if I should try to compress the ends of the next seal into the groove before trimming. The crank will be in place still but lifted. Pushing the existing seal into the groove was a test to see if that seal might shrink when in use, like it seems the old one did.

Those pictures are great. Even after trimming, the ends of those seals were longer than I left mine. I wonder how many rope seals I'll need to install before I get one just right.

I push as much seal as I can into the bottom of the cap first making sure it is deeply seated in the groove. Then slowly work your way out of the cap one side at time using a heavy pipe or socket. When I know its really seated, I very carefully pull it out and install it into the block. With the crank in place, this is the only way to know for sure you have enough seal forced into the block groove. Do not cut the ends till you set the crank back down and pound it into the seal with a rubber hammer. Leave 1/8" or so of the seal sticking out and taper the ends with your fingers so the don't spread out. Do the same using the cap again, only this time compress the seal as go. Think of it as a spring being compressed. Leave the ends a little proud of the cap and add a little sealer to the steel matting surfaces on the cap and block but not the seal. The seal will now try to uncompress forcing itself together at the joints.

Back when the material was better, you would actually pack the rope into the block groove with a special tool and hammer. As the crank rotated, the seal would work itself back to a relaxed state spreading the force out around the whole seal.

When done right, the crank will be hard to start rotating, but spin fairly easy once broke free. You should feel resistance, if not, its not tighten.

Joe