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| | | | Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,399 Gas Pumper | | Gas Pumper Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,399 | My plan is to use stainless steel brake lines throughout the entire 1950 3100 project. I have front disc brakes, rear drum, newer style dual MC and proportioning valve. All I have to do now is connect everything! LOL! Questions are:
1) What pneumatic line tapering tool is best for this? The everyday kits to do it by hand threading just doesn't get it. Too much slippage.
2) What bending tools are best to do this and many more projects to come? Remember its stainless we are talking about. The short prop valve lines look to be the most challenging.
Can use all the help I can get! Thanks! | | | | | Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,038 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,038 | Why stainless steel? Why not copper-nickel alloy (also known as cunifer). This brake line material is used on high end European cars and is corrosion free and much more malleable than stainless, resulting in easy flaring and forming of lines.
I had never done brake lines before and replaced all the brake and fuel lines on my '50 COE without any problems, using a quality flaring tool. As an example of the ease of use, when forming the left rear brake line, I had to find a radius that matched the rear differential axle housing, as the line curves along the upper contour. I just walked over to one of the brake drums and wrapped it around the drum by hand, putting a perfect curve to the line. I have also replaced a brake line on my '42 when I discovered it had been replaced with regular copper line (which, of course, is a no-no). I have yet to have a split flare or failed junction. Napa now has this product in it's catalogue, although you may have to order it in to your local store. It is more expensive than ordinary steel lines, about $2 a foot.
Check out this alternative to ordinary and stainless steel,
Kent
| | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 . | | . Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 | I second the copper nickel line advice. Several years ago I did all stainless lines on a truck and while it can be done, and when done it is nice, it is a whole lot of work to do and do right. The stainless is so stiff and hard to flare. It can be extremely hard to flare, and often impossible with a cheap flaring tool. Most recently I have been using copper nickel line for brake and fuel lines and it is a pleasure to work with, and just as good or better as far as corrosion resistance in comparison to stainless. A few years ago Fed-Hill was the only place in the US to get the stuff and they were (are?) terribly expensive. So I sourced some from England where it is common and I was actually reselling it here on the forum. I'm now out of that business because it's easily available at most auto parts stores, and good prices too. The best prices I've seen recently are on ebay, search for "CNC325" or "CNC425" for 25' rolls of 3/16" and 1/4" respectively. The same part numbers work at most auto parts stores, and there are other lengths and sizes available too. The brand I'd buy today is NiCorp, and goes by those part numbers. Flaring tool. I've owned and tried several including a reasonably cheap OTC, a moderately priced Imperial, the expensive one offered by Fed-Hill, and lastly and best is the Brakequip as seen here http://www.brakequip.com/fitpdf/tubes_flaring.pdfto read more about that try this thread. https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=750776&page=1Bending tools, the best in my opinion are Swagelok (new and expensive) and the older Imperial, Eastman, weatherhead, and similar you can often find on ebay or junk shops/flea markets and so on. Here are some pictures of good benders, ones that only bend ONE line size. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/of_hHESuy8B1Dyn8gz-X2dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlinkhttps://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/dSVi-bznNWxP--lTT_ojE9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlinkhttps://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LPJh7U_1xZLcYZLO1WLazdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlinkhttps://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/p2uf_0bOi74iZ0d8S70IQtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlinkhttps://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/toL5KCmXC0J0_kQbxx7-HtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlinkGrigg | | | | | Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,399 Gas Pumper | | Gas Pumper Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,399 | Great information! Thanks Grigg... Does the brakequip model work with stainless? Problem is, I have the entire brake system in stainless, but some of it wont be applicable to the disc brake system I decided to add to the front. Really, I agree with you on the nickel ones, but I want my new tool to do it ALL. | | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 . | | . Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 | Yes, the brakequip flare tool easily does a fine job on stainless.
Grigg | | | | | Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,399 Gas Pumper | | Gas Pumper Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,399 | $500. But I do about 3 trucks a year brake and fuel, so maybe its worth it. Its a stretch tho. | | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 . | | . Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 | Keep looking for better prices.
The big kit that also does 37* flares BQ350 like I have is or was about $375
The BQ351 (small kit) is/was about $250 and should handle any Stovebolt brake and fuel line requirements.
It's been a year or two that I bought some last, but I don't think it's should cost $500 for the big kit.
That said it's still not a cheap kit but it is well worth the cost. It's very well made, very fast, repeatable, and will make some very nice flares time after time.
Grigg | | | | | Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,399 Gas Pumper | | Gas Pumper Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,399 | I plan on taking your advice. What I had originally thought of was a pneumatic solution, but this looks like a really sound tool and one that a person can rely on over the long term. | | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 . | | . Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 | That looks pretty good but I'd still advise that If you're just making brake lines fit and function you might need a bender.
If you're making them fit perfectly and look crisp and clean a bender is most necessary or at least appreciated. Also the larger the line it becomes impossible to get a snug bend without collapsing the tube. Try 3/8 or 1/2" without a bender and see what you get. Stainless of any size is hard too bend and not kink unless using a bender.
Grigg | | | | | Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,031 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,031 | Sorry grigg i'm not restoring a rig that has 1/2'' or 3/8'' in SS brake lines and yes you would need a bender for those applications. I'm just a little truck guy here. and as you said . . . . . . Grigg
'' I second the copper nickel line advice.
Several years ago I did all stainless lines on a truck and while it can be done, and when done it is nice, it is a whole lot of work to do and do right. The stainless is so stiff and hard to flare. It can be extremely hard to flare, and often impossible with a cheap flaring tool.
Most recently I have been using copper nickel line for brake and fuel lines and it is a pleasure to work with, and just as good or better as far as corrosion resistance in comparison to stainless. ''once my truck was done i drove it, it's been this was for 7yrs now and she gets lots of lookers. she works just fine. Deve has a 50 3100 rig thanks for your input and contributions. it's folks like you who have the experience that allows us one or two truck owners more sage advice on our restorations.  & thanks for the compliment
Last edited by carolines truck; 11/16/2013 5:38 PM.
Jim & Caroline
The highway is for gamblers, better use your good sense."
Gooday-that's my 1¢ answer due to the lousy economy ~ cause I ain't got - no . mo . doe
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| | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 . | | . Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 | If someone's into making lines and has a nice flare tool it'll only be a matter of time before they're making fuel lines, oil lines and whatever else they want. That's where you'll find 5/16" 3/8" and 1/2" lines, and then you'll need some decent benders.
Apparently not the 1/2 tons but on many other trucks 1/4" is a very common brake line size. Depending on the material a bender might be necessary, nice to have in any case.
Grigg | | | | | Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,249 "Hey! I sound like Darth Vader!! | | "Hey! I sound like Darth Vader!! Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,249 | Add hydraulic lines to that list.
If you find a bender not doing the trick, pieces of different diameter pipe might. That's how I make the curly cues that come out of the master. | | | | | Joined: May 2006 Posts: 934 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: May 2006 Posts: 934 | Is it necessary,or a good idea to use teflon tape at the fittings? | | | | | Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 785 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 785 | Teflon tape is for threaded fittings. Brake lines use flare fittings. So not a good idea on a flare fitting, the tape on the threads may interfere with thread engagement to fully seat the flare.. | | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 . | | . Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 | Exactly.
Teflon tape and other "thread sealents" are for sealing tapered pipe threads.
Flared fittings seal at the flared part metal to metal, all the threads do is clamp that metal to metal seal. There should never be fluid at the threads on a flared fitting if it is sealing properly, and therefore no requirement for a sealant.
Grigg | | | | | Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,249 "Hey! I sound like Darth Vader!! | | "Hey! I sound like Darth Vader!! Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,249 | Plus, if you get a little piece of tape in the system, it will mess with your valves ( master.) | | | | | Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 441 Stovebolt Photo Moderator | | Stovebolt Photo Moderator Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 441 | Hi Grigg,
I hope your holidays went as planned. I'm immersed in this flaring tool discussion. For a one-ton Chevy, dually (my truck), can I get away with the cheaper set? Would I need the 37 degree setup? Or can I get by with all the tools in the 45?
Many thanks, Joe
1947 - 3800 dually known as "Deadwrench"Link to a few photosIn this world there are givers and takers. The takers eat well, the givers sleep well. | | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 . | | . Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 | On these trucks all you'll ever need is the small set for 45° flare for the brakes, vacuum, and fuel.
If modifying things and for whatever reason decide to use some AN fittings you may have occasion to use 37° but could also avoid that situation if it came up.
I have the big set, not sure I've used the 37° dies yet... glad to have the ability should it come up though.
Grigg | | | | | Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,248 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,248 | For brake lines you want a double flare on them. It folds the flare back on itself.... I've heard good things about the Copper Nickel lines......
John | | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 . | | . Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,878 | I was talking about the BrakeQuip flare tool which I thought the question was asked about.
They do double flares so that is not an issue.
If looking at any other flare tool for brake lines then yes, be sure it'll double flare. | | | | | Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 434 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 434 | Grigg,
Do you know if the Eastwood pro flaring tool is a rebranded Brakequip?
It looks like it is to me--or copied.
Santa brought me the Eastwood one and while I only have done some 3/8 copper for practice, it really looks like a good tool and is easy to use.
R-Bo
1959 Apache 1/2 ton Big Window, Short bed Fleetside (under reconstruction)
1966 GMC 305V6 in the family
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 6 New Guy | | New Guy Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 6 | Thanks for all the great information!!
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Dudley1030
1953 3100 | | |
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