The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Ideas for a tight engine

Good morning all. I just installed my clean freshly painted 216 back into my nice clean and painted frame. New gaskets adorn the engine as well as a rebuilt head. The bottom half was in excellent condition and was left as is, except for removing 60 years of crud. The crack in the water jacket that stretched a good 10" was repaired with lock n stich. The time had finally came to start her up again. Much to my dismay, she had a different story in mind. It seems that the engine is too tight for the starter to turn it fast enough to ignite. I did drop the pan again and pulled the mains to make sure they were getting oil as they were. Is it possible that the rope seals on the front and rear mains are holding me up as they are not worn in yet? I can spin the engine with a wrench in the balancer with moderate restriction. Thanks for any input. Jim

If you can spin the engine over with a wrench, your starter should spin it fast enough to start. (given a well charged battery, good clean connections and a functional starter) Can you post a video? That might help.

I'm sure others will supply some input as well.

Can't figure what would be causing the drag in the engine. Since you said you didn't bother the lower end, assume all rods and mains were left as is? You didn't mix the rods around or interchange rod caps?
Is it the engine dragging (bottom end) or compression it may have now? If you remove the spark plugs does it turn easier? Usually a 6 volt system doesn't turn the engine over as fast as 12 volt does. The rope seals might cause some drag, but shouldn't be enough to keep it from starting I wouldn't think.

John

maybe you just have a weak starter. you have bad grounds and dirty connections or cable that are undersized or all of the above. if you can spin it by hand then your starter should be able to spin it. you stated you painted the frame, did you clean all the paint off where the terminals connect?

Start with the easy stuff. What is the condition of the battery? If it is less than 5 years old, put it on a charger overnight and try again. If it is older, start with a new battery.

Thanks for the responses. I did use a charger as I was trying to turn it. And yes, the bottom end is in the same order. Even though the starter worked perfectly before hand I did replace the brushes and cleaned the armature. I will pull the starter and take it to a repair shop and have them bench test it. Thanks again. As soon as I can figure out how to post pic's of my handy work I'll post them.

What brand rope seal did you use? Some seals make it very hard to turn the engine over at first.
Growing up we had a hill on the property, we would coast start most of the fresh engines we worked on.

Where's your timing set? Is the timing too far advance to get the starter to turn it over?

Right now I'm just at top dead center. It's just a slow crank. Not enough speed to even attempt an ignition. Like I said, I will check the starter to rule that in or out. Will let you know, Thanks

Slow crank means poor ground. Your engine, if properly measured and assembled is not 'to tight'. Since its a 216 I'll *assume* ots still at 6v? 6V anything needs fat electrical cables (to the starter (like 000-0000 size) and clean, clean clean grounds.

If your at 6V put a 12V battery on it (make sure all electric gauges are out/unhooked) and use that.

IF you are at 12V now, take the plugs out and spin it by hand... it should spin with no compression.

First of all, this site is terrific. Everyone is so helpful, thanks. To answer your question, the grounds are good and I did run 12V to the starter with my connections on the starter, Positive and ground. I did pull the plugs last night to double check myself and tried to spin the engine with the 6 volt and a large battery charger to help. It still turned slow. Pulled the starter and will take it to be bench tested. Will keep you in the loop. Thanks again to everyone!

My 42 Ford has a 6V starter and if you have a good battery and clean grounds the next step is to clean the commutator. They sell special stones for this.

The copper corrodes and creates resistance in the circuit. If my jFord sits for 3-4 months part of my 'pre flight' is to take the band off the end, put a stone on the commutator and bump the starter with the plugs out.

I have a write up HERE

Call the shop and ask that they clean them... and CHECK THAT THEY DID when you pick it up.

I had a similar problem just when i was getting my 6v 216 running.
The original starter would easily spin the engine w/the head off. I would spin the engine quite a bit in this manner inorder to test oil pressure, circulate oil and with the cylinders full of oil, to try and get the rings unstuck (which did).
Once I put the engine back together the starter worked OK at 1st then started failing to the point it wouldn't spin the engine at all.
It would spin fine in my bench vice. I ended up replaceing it and starting is no longer a problem.
I did take the starter apart and cleaned it up, shined up the commutator and brushes and read continuity of the fields and armature and it didn't fix it. One needs a "growler" to properly test an armature and thats what i figure failed on mine. A good rebuild shop has the proper tools.
Anyways, if your battery and main connections are good and serviceable, you're looking at either rebuilding or replaceing the starter.
I've run 6v electrics for decades on an old tractor I used in all 4 seasons and so far 6v works in my 49 3100 fine too.
Good luck
Dave

I had this same problem when I installed my fresh 248. After months of scratching my head and getting ready to drop the oil pan I found that whoever built my engine had put lock washers on the bell housing to block bolts and the bolt heads were rubbing against the flywheel.

I know on my truck when I first got it, the starter wouldn't "run" sometimes. Take a hammer or something and wrap it one than it'd work. Took it a part, found the brushes were worn down. new brushes fixed it back up. Also put new bushings in while it was a part.
Trying to remember, I think you undercut the mica on a generator but not a starter, or vise versa??

John

Generators have the mica undercut.

A good starter shop should know what to do. Only thing they have that most home garages don't is a growler. You can fix just about any problem with stones, new brushes, a multimeter, and new bearings/bushings.

You don't have a growler?? LOL. I have one under the bench, never have used it though.....

John

I've used one before... they are true one trick ponies.

And the winner is, "poor ground". Me, being my anal self, took the end bells off of the starter and painted the stator housing. In doing so I also painted the ends where the brush end cap and bendix housing attach. OOps! Cleaned them to bare metal and after some time, off she went. What a beautiful sound. She started and got nice and warm until I blew out the front freeze plug. Did you know there is a right way and a wrong way to insert them? I do now. So I guess I'll have to pull the motor back out and redo the rear one since I installed it the same as the front. Dumb [censored], Live and learn! Thanks to all., See you on the road, a little later than sooner though!!

Sorry to hear about the freeze plug issue, but glad you figure out the cranking issues. Yes, many of us know (because there are posts about it) that the freeze plugs must be inserted concave out and then use a ball peen hammer to "dent" the center of the freeze plug inwards toward the engine block. This "locks" the plug in place. I use a sealant/glue to help hold it in place as well for extra measure.

Yeh, that would have helped if I read up on it before hand. Oh well, school of hard knocks. But on the other hand, I'm getting good at pulling the motor.