The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Air Conditioning for a 1956 3100 w235 recommendations

Hello fellow Bolter's

I am seeking some advice once again for my truck.

Here is what I am wanting to know.

1.)What is the best system for the money?

2.)How many BTU's would you recommend for the truck?

3.)Any thoughts about noise from the A/C such as air noise from the fan?

4.)What is going to keep my truck cool?

5.)Any issues with over heating while running the air condition system? I plan to use the original radiator and original fan on my 235. I did have my old radiator serviced. Its a fresh rebuild and a alternator conversion.

6.)What should I insulate in the cab?

7.)Is R-134A still the best auto refrigerant?

If I could get the vents to throw ice cubes I would love that (not really). I really like it cold and live in Las Vegas and do not want to move. I know some units are 18,000 BTU's is that a good base line. What would be the normal BTU's?

Here are company's I am researching now I would love to hear the thoughts good or bad. Any comments on ease of installation? Tell me what you liked or hated, or if you have a new company that I have not listed. I even like any ideas from custom junk yard builds.

Here are the ones I have found so far:
Vintage Air, Inc.
Old Air Products
Restomod Air
Classic Auto Air
eCycle, Inc. (all electric (compressor only) not belt driven, example for police cars so they do not idle and compressor can be located anywhere.)

For my 55.1 3100, I used the system from Old Air products. I lived about 12 miles from their Fort Worth location, so in-person consultation was easy. I don't know the capacity, but it is adequate for Fort Worth, with caveats. It' a recirculating-only system, so fan noise is high. Just like an OEM system on recirculate. I don't have much insulation so it's slow to cool. I'd recommend you insulate everything in the cab to death. I'm tall, so the vents don't blow in my face. You'll feel cooler if your face is cool. I'd recommend you design a vent system that puts cold air on your face (and your passenger's face)

No engine problems with stock 235 and radiator without shroud.

If you think you may ever want power steering, go to Buffalo for the compressor brackets.

I use R-134A.

regards,
Leon

Thanks Leon,

I assumed that there is no way around the noise, insulation will help out alot in the cooling and outdoor sound.

I guess the real issue for me is i want it really cool with no overheating with a system that look nice. (Dont we all)

Since i have a bear cab i am just looking for all the tricks to squeeze every little bit of cooling possible as i am building it. I just want to measure twice or three times and cut once in my design.

never heard of anyone asking about BTU for a truck or car air conditioner...........I had vintage in mine, love it..

what do you have for a budget...and are you installing it yourself..

your other questions are pretty well what ever one wants,
cool, not run hot, etc.........pretty obvious it needs to be well insulated, and your engine needs to be in really good shape and
you might need an electric fan..

Everyone I talk to always recommend Vintage Air first. I have yet to find anyone not happy with there system. I helped work on a Old Air system in a '55 Chevrolet car since I had the recovery machine at work. It was a black car with black interior and very little if any insulation. No amount of playing with gas volume or pressures could make the car cool on a hot day. We were lucky to get 10 to 15 degree drop from outside. I blame the unit and lack of insulation. I don't believe it was big enough even though it was a made to fit piece. Insulation would really help, but it still wasn't what I would consider cold air coming out of the vents. It did look nice and fit pretty well. Cooling of the condenser is a must, does your fan have plenty of air flow? At speed it won't be a problem, its the traffic jams that will over heat you. This is where high cfm fans come in handy.

If you have a bare cab, insulate the heck out of it, it will help even if you choose not to add air. Then, get the biggest system that will fit, even if you have to make it fit.

Well I will elaborate a little more on my thoughts. Commercially I repair and install A/C systems now since 1988. I know that different cars have to have different sizes coils for different heat loads. They coils are measured in BTU capacity. Here is what I am getting at, I can go conventional and just get a standard system from one of the company's which seems to be a good idea or I can piece a system with a little higher capacity and try and get the cooling I want. I love air Conditioning especially in the summer here where temps can reach 115 degrees plus.

I see a lot of cool custom add on's here from IFS, v-8's, interior and body work to many cool stuff. I was thinking why not a custom a/c. For cop cars they sell a non belt driven compressor that mounts in the trunk or really anywhere so they do not have to idle their cars and it solves the over heating issue I think. The other problem with the belt driven system it robs power from the engine stealing horsepower and in the stop and go traffic system the compressor slows down and slows the refrigerant in the system so the air coming from the vents warms up. Now the compressor is a little pricy about 1100 big ones but if I can piece a system with matching up the coils to the compressor and make the indoor section & vents work where its not too ugly I am game. It would eliminate relocating some of the brackets on the motor and changing the belt drive system. It would take rerouting the refrigerant lines and running power to the compressor. On paper I can make it work but not sure it would really make that much of a difference for the cost of it. I am not trying to do a heat load calculation or trying to engineer to the exact calculation however I was thinking if a normal design was a certain number of BTU's then why not just bump it up to the next size. I am not on a budget with the a/c but do not just waste money. It might just not be practical to do this and might be just smarter to buy a system already built.

I also wanted to know what you all liked about your systems so I can pick the best system if I decided to go that route.

Thanks guys.

you are way ahead of me, nice truck you have..
looking at your pix, you might be over thinking this deal...lol

Jaime,

Since you're in the business you have an advantage over many of us with a higher level of related skills and better access to specialty tools and equipment. Maybe you could fabricate a dual evaporator system like was/is used in some Suburbans. The second evaporator could fit behind or under the seat and blow air on the back of your neck. The bracketry for the typical small Sanden compressor could be modified to fit the larger one, and a thicker or auxiliary condenser should fit in the front of the TF core support.

BTW did I meet you at the Inliners Convention in Carson City last June?

regards,
Leon

Hey Joker, you are absolutely correct I am aware I do over think things I guess it runs in my blood. Just to clarify the nice truck comment thank you, if you were referring to the 235 motor on the powder coated frame yup that's mine but if you were talking about the black 56 with red flames I actually was using that pic for the grill. Butches Cool Stuff gave him the grill on his truck to promote their grills. that's the style I want to put in my 56 I guess I should clarify that in photo bucket.

Leon, I work in an a/c shop that has 44 mechanics 8 foremen and 4 supervisors and I have all my a/c tools but I borrow the vacuum pump, tanks and recovery machines from my coworkers. I have been studying ideas but to blow air on the neck I think it would be easier to make a console and just vent it. I think the one problem you might run into is that if you have heat I would not want it back there I think it would make me fall a sleep while driving. I am planning to install Chrysler 300M seat that are heated just finished the wiring diagram. My Cadillac has air cooled seat by simply adding a fan underneath the seats. No it was not me at the inliners but I really am going to all the events close to my area. Funny thing is my brother blew out the bottom of his compressor in his ford exploder and I replaced it a few weeks ago. I can size up a house or building but sizing up a truck I know nothing about, I just know how to fix them and charge them.

Tiny, at work we have four of the Smith Electric trucks, all 100% battery powered 5 ton delivery trucks made here in Kansas City. They use a 230v ac compressor and standard Avia truck condenser and evaporator. The trucks main computer gets the 320v dc and converts to 230v ac for drive motor, p/s, a/c, and air compressor.

The a/c works pretty well and draws very little power, the unit is a commercial freezer pump. Your problem will be getting a big enough unit to work with the limited power you have on hand ( these trucks have 96 batteries). Its a neat idea and one I have kicked around. Maybe something off one of the small electric cars or hybrids would work as well.

Keep us posted on this, sounds like a " cool " idea.

Joe

Well just an update, after doing some more research I decided to try to engineer something but only on paper. I have a shop of 44 ac mechanics like myself that's willing to jump into the thought process. I did call some auto air conditioning mfr companies and they were not sure of the BTU's except for on said it was about 22500 BTU's.

Hey Joe H that's pretty cool about those trucks. I think depending on the set up I could get away with 2 to 4 depending on the amp hours of the batteries. I do not think I could afford 96 nor have the space for them.

If I can get the system matched up with the condenser and evaporator section along with the battery operated compressor I just might give it a try. The install of the hoses and electrical is pretty much routing cables and hoses where it is hidden.

I just need to figure out how much power electric radiator fans, blower motor and compressor consume. Just think how cool (really) would it be to be at a car show and then when its too hot outside just setting in the cab and running the ac for an hour or 2 without running the motor.

I might be over thinking the a/c thing lol and it just might be better going with an aftermarket normal system. I will start on paper and then see where it goes. If anyone has any ideas or input I would love to hear.

Here is what gave me the idea No Idle AC Compressor

TJ,
Thats an interesting a/c system in the police cruisers. But the price is more tghan you would pay for a complete system. However, "Disclaimer, I'm not an MD., But I did stay at a holiday inn express last night." I think you may need a couple aspirins and to go lay down for a little while.
You are really overthinking this, I realize you are in a rather warm area and could really benefit from some cold a/c. If you insulate your cab well and get a good quality a/c system from one of the manufactures you shouldn't have any problems. Also if you want to make something up, you may want to look at some of the Imported trucks/cars, and see the a/c systems in them. All in one system, heat/a/c together and compact. I don't ever remember being in one of those vehicles and not being cold.

If and when my 2000 VW Passat goes down,before it goes to the scrap yard the a/c system comes out for my truck. It's stinking cold after a bit. And the car is black with black interior. So they can get cold if they are built right.

(Sorry, probably shouldn't have used VW here.) But that a/c will get with the program.

Any aftermarket or under dash air will cool that small space. (very small cu ft) You'll get the usual 30 to 50 deg differential from outside. Depending of course on how hot the outside is and humidity. 134 is the one you are supposed to use as you know. Only person that can buy R12 are "Technicians certified to service motor vehicle air-conditioners by a Section 609 EPA-certified testing organization". You don't worry about BTU's in a truck cab or any other truck/car. Proper sized radiator will suffice to accommodate A/C. It's old technology and all worked out already. As you know, the more insulation the better, including all air gaps, I.E. rubber seals at doors, tinted windows, But you will be cool without that also because it blows right on you, it's only 30" away. Build your own, Get a Sanden compressor, a drier, a condenser, evaporator, a under dash unit and you got it. There are many old school under dash units available on EBAY and Craigslist. They have the evaporator and blower built in just like the "new" ones. Some are thin and it would be in the middle where no one sits.

Yes your right guys about the license needed to purchase R-12 or R-22. I do not know if its still this way now as when I received my automotive license about 15 years ago or more but i purchased a book from ESCO Institute through the mail and they sent me a test and it was in open book format. When i mailed them test back a few weeks later i had my license in hand. Now my universal refrigeration commercial license was a couple hours closed book at a test facility way more difficult. The old R-12 systems were great just so expensive now to get the refrigerant. I also knew when retrofitting the old R-12 to an R-134A it did not cool the same but i think now the R-134A systems are dialed in pretty good and the problem is solved.

Looking at the cost of what i am thinking about doing, yes i know its starting to add up and a regular system is about 1400.00 and for the just evaporator section its about 800.00 plus the compressor which is another 1100.00 (for the no idle type all electrical one) not including the drier, mounting hardware, hoses and electrical. I have contacted the companies and explained what i want to do now just waiting for their response. I guess they way i see it you can throw a few bucks on custom engine or body why not a custom ac. Well the cost might not be worth it and i guess i will see after they get back with me.

As soon as i get the info back i will post it. Keep the thoughts coming all is appreciated.

I don't know where you are getting your prices but the Sanden 508 Compressor, the choice of millions of hot rodders, is $250 with clutch, either serpentine or groove pulley and all the brackets are $100 at reputable places like Summit and Speedway , etc. Brand new. On Ebay, Plenty of under dash units with evap, blower, all vents and all switches as one unit from Chrome to slimline,, from original "Cool Pac" (Chevy's first units), to Frigiking and so on for $100-$200, the rest are generic and are purchased from any A/C parts house, custom hoses at a hose place, that sounds like $800-$900 total. What's the problem? To these companies you are contacting, you probably seem like a fish. If you are a refer guy, buy the components, mount 'em, hose 'em, charge 'em and be khul.

Hey batamos,

The standard ac compressor is i agree pretty cheap i just replaced one on my brothers truck for about 150 the ac compressor i was looking at had an inverter to run off of ac power that hooked up without using engine belt driven system.

When i orginally posted my question i did not seperate my thoughts. I lumped them all together. I wanted to know what a/c sytem they liked and why or why not. Then i was thinking about doing the no idle inverter type that runs off batterys vers. engine pullys. The evap price was from classic auto air and it seems like vintage air evap runs close two the same. Just fyi. Those where I got my prices from. I may just take some measurements from the old truck and head to the junkyard to get an idea.