The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop engine temp

whats your 235 engine temp while running down the road on a 80 deg day today i was running around and it was about 80 running down the road it was 190 and stopped it went up, i saw as highas 200,, is this normal ?

Thanks

is this in the car? what are you judging that temp by? stock gauge, aftermarket gauge or ? .... have you checked your gauge against an actual thermometer measurement? if it's running an actual 180-190* I'd expect you have a 180* thermostat, which sets the minimum temp, might want to try a 160 for the summer - if the temp goes up a lot at an idle, you're not drawing enough air with the fan, if it goes up after you shut it off it's to be expected

Bill

below boiling should technically be fine, keeping in mind boiling point goes up with pressure. But, yes you need to verify the accuracy of your gauge vs thermostat rating. From 1984, up until last year I ran a 195 degree thermostat, that is what my dad always used, I don't know if it was gooder or worser, but the engine ran for 28 years that way. (with a few years off while I was terrorizing waikiki, I was bouncing at a GENTLEMENS club, AH what a way to spend your 20's) So in summation, the temperatures you present to us, are acceptable if accurate, but whether or not they are what you are supposed to have I don't know, I also don't know the condition of your cooling system, the proximity of your fan to the radiator, build up in your radiator, things like that. You should get one of those little laser gun therometers, (what am I saying, I need to get one of those little laser gun thermometers)

it is car ,, i had the motor rebuild last fall and had the rad
cleaned and flushed , they told me it was 80% dont know what that means ,, the fan is about a 1" from the rad .. were is a good place to check with a laser gun ?? all i can go by is a gauge that i mounted inside ,, what about rad cap??? i was told that to use a flip top style and to use a 12 lb ,, he said that the regular style dont seal as good good ,, so that being said what lb should i run ??

thanks

I wouldn't use more than 7# on an original 58 rad, which I think is what the manual would call for, and the flip top type just gives you a safety when removing the cap hot, they don't 'seal better' - you shouldn't even need to have the cap on tight for it to stay at the proper temp if the cooling system is all good - also do not overfill the rad, it should be down at least an inch or it will push out the excess, or with too high a rated cap, will crack a seam in an old rad

with the laser, check the thermostat housing for the "high temp" and check the lower rad hose or it's input at the water pump to see how much the rad is cooling, should be at least 10-15* difference - check the rad top and bottom tanks too - the stat housing temp [when warmed up] should be close to the stat rating, and stats can go bad or be defective out of the box .... can also check around the block to see if there's a hot spot that might indicate a plugged passage

Bill

good stuff there red58 what did you mean (I wouldn't use more than 7# on an original 58 rad),, is that 7 lb cap ?? ,,,, my fluid is about a 1" down and i think i am runnig 50 /50 and i used distilled water too not tap water ( dont know if that makes a difference ) but i will check with laser gauge

thanks

yes, for the trucks anyway, the original was a 7# cap, the era cars should be the same, a higher pressure will just stress the rad for no gain, they weren't designed for it

Bill

thanks red58

i will look tomm for a 7 lb cap ,, i think i am running a a 12 lb now ,,, hey what you think about oil ,, had a guys tell me that he runs 20w 50 in his cars ,, hes got a 58 yeoman and a 59 el camino , i run 30 now and i am due for a change after my rebuild ,, and should i add some zddp ???

the zinc is only useful on a fresh rebuild, if you've been using regular oil all along, no need to change that - I use 10-30 for my old bolts, 20-50 is usually for diesels and for me is overkill unless summer temps are real high and your using it hard, I might use it in a high mileage small block and likely will in the 454 going in my vintage RV

Bill

I put 30w in right after the rebuild and i am ready for a oil change, i though it might help because iam running a little hotter than normal thats all ,, am i understanding it right that 20w 50 starts off like 20 and as it get hot it goes to 50 ?
Thanks

about multi grade oil, it's vaguely as you say .... I didn't catch that you'd just rebuilt it, folks do usually use the ZDDP additive or diesel grades with zinc for the first while, but I don't think not using it would contribute to temperature, and I'm not convinced it'd be a real wear problem not using it .... hopefully your rebuild included good assembly lube

Bill

I wanna know just who you were bouncing (on) at that Gent's club...rowdy customers or hot dancers ..;)

Noe back to you're regularly scheduled programming...

Yes it was assembled right, ,i am thinking i have rad troubles on the running hot, ,not rwal ot just 200 at idle, ,

Thanks

D. All of the above. I can sure spend some time looking back on all that......

now back to the matter at hand, 20-50 would be most likely to heavy. There are at least 2 very good articles on oils, with emphasis on zddp levels. One is by Bob Olree, a GM, or at least retired GM engineer, who by several accounts is virtually without peer in this field, and one I just found the other day on VCCA a fella named Vidman. Who is, or was an engineer in this sort of stuff for several of the major oil comapanies. They both say pretty much the same thing, but given the probable oil temp achieved in these engines 20-50 would be way out of its acceptable range. (this is one of the reasons I want to get one of those little laser gun thermometers.) I won't try to summarize their articles, because, well, they already did it. The one interesting thing I found out is, the zinc (the "Z" in zddp is there for anti-corrosion) While it is actually the phosphate, (maybe phosphorus, thats why I let them tell the story) the "P" in zddp is the actual anti scuffing ingredient we are looking for. The article by vidman is very recent and includes the little code numbers and what not to look for on the side of oil containers, mostly it seems the diesel oils are the ones with the appropriate amount of zddp, but here again, you read the stories and make your own decision. As far as your overheating, technically if it is below boiling and it stops rising, it isn't overheated. Did you use a new/different thermostat upon reassembly? As I said I ran my truck at 195 (why is there no symbol for degrees on these computters?) for 28 years, as well as every car I owned up until recently when I started buying new cars, and I have a feeling the new cars run even hotter, but I don't know that for sure. I have never had a fresh engine get hot, I have only built 2 auto engines, as I have never really had one fail. But diesels we would rebuild at least one a year for the about 20 years I spent up in alaska and in the merchant marines. So as long as it stops by 200 degrees, you are fine. Nonetheless, you should double check the accuracy of your gauge, which since you never mentioned water blowing out the top of the radiator like a geyser, seems to be accurate enough. The most important part being is the water stays in the engine, once it starts blowing then you are screwed.

Get yourself a digital inferred meter. They run about $35 and are a good tool to have.

As others have mentioned 200 is not a problem, especially using a 7# radiator cap. Also confirm the actual temperature using a heat gun.
I've always used a lighter oil for the initial break in on a fresh motor. With a stock motor 5-30 or 10-30 is fine. You can actually do more damage with to thick of oil than to thin.
The only time that oil can play into water temperature is if the oil temperature is rising higher than normal, then it can raise water temperature. I drive truck for a living, I find that the engine oil temperature can rise some if I have a heavy load and I'm really working the engine, especially on a long and or steep hill.

ok so what i am getting is stay away from 20w50 and stay witha 30w or a 10w 30 ,, what do you guys think about Synthetic oil ,, here in our shop were i work we use 15w40 full synthetic real green , i would love to use this oil i could change every 2k or less ,, but i have read to stay away from them ,, thanks for the info i will get me a heat gauge do some real test , i am going to take the rad out and get it look at by another shop and see what they say ,, i would like to look into making some kind of fan shroud that would help pull more air across the rad away thanks again

Ok i got a lazer for temp wheres the best place to check it? top of state houseing?

Thanks

check all over the place

Hi all, I would agree with all who suggest using a laser thermometer,I have an international harvester grain truck that always shoes above normal water temp, tried changing sender,go to I.h. Buy replacement dash gauge,found cracked rad and repaired,changed thermostat,etc,no change in temp reading,borrowed friends laser gauge and low and behold engine running 20 degrees cooler than gauge reads. Always remembered that head is usually always hotter than rest of engine but also checked various areas of head, block,even water pump. Will get laser temp gauge when I get a chance. Pat

all done i went with 30 w and added zddp here is the car
[IMG]http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g407/robbie1965/SANY0461-1_zpse4b91f46.jpg[/IMG]

no 17 wheels i have the 14 with red spinners

thanks for all the input

on the temp part here what i have
car at idle for 30 min in drive way gauge is 200
bottom stat-176
top rad -170
bottom rad hose-159
top rad hose- 169
intake carb side -187
top of head- 209
top of head at gauge port-190
bottom block 200
side head at spark plugs 203
water pump heater hose 182
exhaust 356