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#91519 09/18/2004 7:36 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
Extreme Gabster
Extreme Gabster
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
I scored a rebuilt radio for my 54 GMC at the Petit Jean swap meet. The seller, who claimed to be the rebuilder, told me it would work on positive or negative ground. It makes no difference since it uses a vibrator.
One of you radio guys tell me if he knows what he's talking about. He apparently used negative ground to test it (if he did) because he talked about the wire from positive and the ground to frame.
It is 6 V by the way.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
#91520 09/18/2004 11:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,115
'Bolter
'Bolter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,115
He is correct. It will be fine either way as long as the vibrator has not been replaced with a solid state one.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
#91521 09/18/2004 2:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,813
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
H Offline
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Posts: 29,813
Oh, it's tempting, but I'm not going to make any kinky comments!
grin grin grin
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
#91522 09/18/2004 5:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,115
'Bolter
'Bolter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,115
HotRodLincoln,
I was searching one day on Ebay for some radio vibrators and it took a lot effort to get the search criteria right!


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
#91523 09/19/2004 2:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 124
J
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Member
J Offline
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Posts: 124
Well... I was searching the net for an erotic vibrator - ended up with a NOS vibrator for a 50's era Delco Radio.

Not wanting to waste it, I bought a 54 Chevy to restore.

Not sure if the wife would have preferred the former or not.

#91524 09/19/2004 3:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,269
Bubba - Curmudgeon
Bubba - Curmudgeon
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,269
Don't know about human preferences, but as truckernix said, if you are upgrading to sold state, the polarity matters (it does not matter with the original-style vibrator).

http://www.antiqueautomobileradio.com/vibratorsF.htm

Tim

#91525 09/19/2004 4:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,115
'Bolter
'Bolter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,115
Cletis,
here is a more lengthy explanation.

The 6V is used in three places in the radio:
1) The vibrator supply
2) the tube heater supply
3) the dial light

So for instance, if you wanted to convert to a 12v operation, you would change the tubes to the 12v version, change the dial light and change the power transformer.

The truck radios did not use the 6v for bias supply. However, in the very early days of radio, they used two and sometimes three different battery voltages and in those early radios, sometimes the bias supply came from the lower voltage batteries.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
#91526 09/19/2004 4:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,813
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
H Offline
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It's been a LONG time since I did any vacuum-tube work, but the Air Force did spend a lot of time and money training me how to do it! As I remember, the vibrator is used to create a pulsating voltage that can be run through a transformer, and stepped up to a high enough voltage to be used as the B+ voltage on the tubes. It won't matter what polarity the low voltage is, as long as a mechanical vibrator is used. Solid-state oscillators do need correct-polarity voltage, but most of them are 12 volts, I believe.
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
#91527 09/19/2004 6:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,115
'Bolter
'Bolter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,115
HotRod,
yes, that is how they work. The primary has a center tap which is connected to ground. The vibrator alternately applies 6 v to each side of the winding.

An interesting thought is how they did this before the mechanical vibrator. The early auto radios used a motor generator set to accomplish this. I can't recall the name for that arrangement.

I get the impression that the military provided some pretty good training while on the job.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
#91528 09/19/2004 8:51 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
Extreme Gabster
Extreme Gabster
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
So the vibrator makes AC for a transformer becauce transformers don't work on DC?


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
#91529 09/19/2004 9:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,813
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
H Offline
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Posts: 29,813
Right! it's actually a pulsating DC, almost a square wave, that can be stepped up with a transformer like AC. An ignition coil does essentially the same thing, stepping the 6 or 12 volts up to several thousand to fire the spark plugs. The buildup and collapse of the magnetic field causes voltage to be induced in a winding, and the more turns of wire in the coil, the higher the voltage will be.
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
#91530 09/20/2004 11:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,458
4
Extreme Gabster
Extreme Gabster
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Posts: 3,458
This is, oddly enough, still how many power supplies operate, but using electronic switches instead of a coil and a contactor.

Vacuum tube circuits use very high bias voltages (denoted by B+, usually at least 90 volts) to set up an electric field at the plate, which is controlled by a slightly negative voltage at the grid. The cathode in most radio tubes is a separate element that is more negative than the heater filament to keep noise from the electrical system from coupling into the radio by forming a reverse biased diode between the cathode and the filament. Some older types of tubes have directly heated cathodes that are not isolated. Since the filaments consume the most power in a tube circuit they are usually run directly off the battery (or electrical system) of the vehicle, and will pick up noise from the charging system and ignition system.

My old Fender guitar amp has a switch on the back that lets me flip the polarity of the heaters to select the less noisy mode.

If the radio was designed well it should work equally well with either polarity with the correct vibrator, but if it is not a good design it will be much noisier if run in reverse polarity. I don't have access to the schematic of your radio, so I couldn't tell you.

I've designed a couple of high gain tube circuits in my life and it can be pretty tough to make them quiet.


Paint & Body Shop moderator
A lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.
#91531 09/30/2004 1:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 198
A
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Posts: 198
with a little work you can change the tubes to a series circuit, using two tubes in series across 12v works of find a 12v tube with the same specs as the original like a 6au6 becomes a 12au6

#91532 10/23/2004 5:11 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,904
W
'Bolter
'Bolter
W Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,904
Will this be on the exam?


1948 3/4-Ton 5-Window Flatbed Chevrolet

34 Years. Now with a '61 261, 848 head, Rochester Monojet carb, SM420 4-speed, 4.10 rear, dual reservoir MC, Bendix up front, 235/85R16 tires, 12-volt w/alternator, electric wipers and a modern radio in the glove box.
#91534 10/24/2004 3:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,248
W
'Bolter
'Bolter
W Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,248
Actually I do think it makes a difference on polarity of connections. If radio were insulated from the vehicle ground( metal of the dash), then yes it could be used with either polarity. But since the radio bolts in to the metal dash it does have to be correct for the vehicle's polarity. '54 Chevy truck has a negative 6 volt ground.

#91535 10/24/2004 5:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 586
5
Shop Shark
Shop Shark
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 586
I sent my radio to a shop to get it working and
the repairman told me it didn't make any difference how my truck was grounded. It works
with neg. or pos. ground.


Moderated by  Jon G, Rusty Rod 

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