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#908077 01/02/2013 12:04 AM
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'Bolter
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Are any special bollts needed for the front motor mounting on the 235, they are carriage bolts, I tried but couldn't find grade 8 carriange bolts.


1941 Chevy
"First rebuild - complete!"
Follow the story in the DITY
1941 GMC resting peacefully
1946/1947 Chevy Street rod on s10 frame complete
1945 GMC panel truck in line for restoration
1941 Plymouth stock complete
1941 GMC COE in restoration process
Read his Project Journal
1941 Chevy Coe uncertain future resting now
homer52 #908123 01/02/2013 11:23 AM
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In my 47-54 Assembly Manual I find no reference to carriage bolts being used. It only says they are furnished by the Engine Plant, tighten to 55-75 ft lbs and bend the lock ear to lock the bolt. That being said it would seen to be a hex head bolt as there would not be a requirement to lock a carriage bolt ad they are used in a recess. 55-75 ft lbs would require a 1/2" grade 5 bolt if I remember my Eng'r studies but I doubt they are that large. These are the bolts from the engine to the cross-member that pass through the engine mount. Can you clarify exactly which bolts your concerned with?


1953 Chevy 5-window 3100
In the Stovebolt Gallery
More pix on Picturetrail

Dave
Engine & Driveline Moderator

If you can't make seventy by an easy road, don't go. ~~ Mark Twain
homer52 #908143 01/02/2013 12:23 PM
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Your right on the money, except that the center 2 that go through the front lower engine mount are 1/2( I think) and the outer 2 that secure it to the crossmember are 3/8 or 5/16, again, I think. I'll have to go to the shop and check for sure,I have the old ones. they are going on my 41. All 4 are carriage bolts. I've been told I can't use a carriage bolt on one center bolt because I didn't put it in before putting the timing cover on. Dave


1941 Chevy
"First rebuild - complete!"
Follow the story in the DITY
1941 GMC resting peacefully
1946/1947 Chevy Street rod on s10 frame complete
1945 GMC panel truck in line for restoration
1941 Plymouth stock complete
1941 GMC COE in restoration process
Read his Project Journal
1941 Chevy Coe uncertain future resting now
homer52 #908155 01/02/2013 12:47 PM
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Posts: 29,269
Bubba - Curmudgeon
Bubba - Curmudgeon
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Posts: 29,269

I see a carriage bolt being pointed-to in the 1947-1955 1st series Factory Assembly Manual diagram (Section 6, Sheet 12.00) - 3701135 BOLT

Group 0.002 BOLT - NUT - SPRING - SPACER, Engine Mounting
1937-1954 COMM., UTIL - frt. mtg. (3/8 x 24 x 1 1/2" drld., carr. hd) - 3701135 (part number shown in Factory Assembly Manual)
(3/8" diameter, x 24 tpi, x 1.5" long, drilled carriage bolt - drilled for lock pin, I guess)


Also,
- the circled-instruction/illustration 2 is referring to the bolts/nuts that comes from the factory with the plate (here are photos of a factory replacement plate/bolts/nuts - the bolts are not drilled for a lock pin)
- the circled-instruction/illustration 3 is referring to the bolt in one of the rear motor mounts (insert illustration at upper right).
"It only says they are furnished by the Engine Plant, tighten to 55-75 ft lbs and bend the lock ear to lock the bolt."

homer52 #908160 01/02/2013 12:58 PM
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I don't have a parts list except as mentioned in the Assembly Manual so no way to determine what the bolt are except as shown.


1953 Chevy 5-window 3100
In the Stovebolt Gallery
More pix on Picturetrail

Dave
Engine & Driveline Moderator

If you can't make seventy by an easy road, don't go. ~~ Mark Twain
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Thanks Tim, that helps. Dave


1941 Chevy
"First rebuild - complete!"
Follow the story in the DITY
1941 GMC resting peacefully
1946/1947 Chevy Street rod on s10 frame complete
1945 GMC panel truck in line for restoration
1941 Plymouth stock complete
1941 GMC COE in restoration process
Read his Project Journal
1941 Chevy Coe uncertain future resting now
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From Lonniec thread
Very good information
Even gives the fastnal item number for the inside and outside bolts

A square carrage is needed to lock into the square in the retainer plate

Great job Lonnie
Originally Posted by LonnieC
SUCCESS! The new front and rear motor mounts on my '54 3100 235 are in. Thanks to all of you that helped me with your ideas, personal experiences, and encouragement.

The process wasn't as difficult as I had anticipated ... 'course Darryl at the shop did the job instead of me.

Not saying that this is the "best" or the "right" way to do the job. But this is a recap of our installation and a list of the hardware used.

Follow the instructions in the Shop Manual 6-13, 6-14. Place the rubber cushion for the front motor mount into the retainer with the slots facing up. The radiator does not need to be removed for access, but you probably want to remove the hoses.

Insert the end carriage bolts into the front mount through the rubber cushion, the retainer, and the cross member before adding the shield. I don't believe that my 3/8"-24 carriage bolts were drilled for a cotter pin. I used flexible lock nuts to secure the end bolts.

The middle carriage bolt on the drivers side of the front motor mount drops into place through the square hole in the front plate with a little wiggling and the motor raised about an inch.

The middle carriage bolt on the passenger side binds against the timing chain cover which prevents it from dropping through the front plate. Darryl ground off one side of the carriage bolt head to allow it to clear the cover. I'm not overly concerned about grinding the bolt head because the bolt on the drivers side is intact, and because a bolt with a ground-off side is still better than what I have had for the past 12 years ... 3/8" hex bolts with NO NUTS!

The washers on the middle bolts that are in the front mount must cover the metal sleeve inside the rubber cushion, but not touch the cross member. GM specs are for 13/16" OD. The washers that I bought were 15/16" OD. So he used stainless 3/8" washers and enlarged the hole to accept the 7/16" bolts.
< CLICK > Completed bolts, washers, & nuts on front mount.

"All bolts should be kept tight except the two self-locking nuts on front motor mount. Self-locking nuts should be tightened securely but not too tight to cause damage to the front support assembly."

The rear mounts were installed as described in the Shop Manual. One of the upper mounts from the Truck Shop (made in India) was identical to the pic in the Shop Manual and to the one that was on the truck. The other upper mount was different. A corner had to be ground down to fit. I shoulda checked them when they arrived. Torque the rear mount bolts to 65 ft-lb.

I noticed a little engine vibration through the steering wheel after the new mounts were installed. We had checked the clearance between the plate and the retainer on the front mount before installation per instructions in the Shop Manual. The clearance seemed OK. I won't be able to fully test drive it for a couple of weeks to see if I have a problem.

FRONT MOUNT HARDWARE:
> Shield - GM #3656502; Filling Station #TR-182
> Cushion Assembly - GM #3657520; Filling Station #CV-335A
> Plate - GM #3657522, used original plate that was on the truck
> Retainer - GM #368449, used the original retainer that was on the truck
> Middle Bolts (2) - GM furnished by engine plant; Fastenal #21879 7/16"-14 x 2-1/4" Zinc finish SAE J429 grade 5 round head carriage bolt
> Middle Washers (2) - GM #352282 7/16" ID, 13/16" OD, 0.062 thick; we used 3/8" stainless washers that are the correct OD and filed the hole to 7/16". the 7/16" washers that I bought were 15/16" OD and might touch the crossmember.
> Middle Nuts (2) - GM furnished by engine plant; Ace Hardware 7/16"-14 top lock nut.
> End Bolts (2) - GM #3701135 3/8"-24 x 1-7/8" carriage bolts; used the GM carriage bolts that were on the truck. If you need the end bolts, you could use Fastenal #0159808 3/8"-16 x 2" Zinc Finish SAE J429 Grade 5 Short Square Neck Round Head Carriage Bolt
> End Washers (2) - GM #365685 3/8" ID, 1-1/4" OD, 0.187 thick; Fastenal #11101273 3/8" x 1.250" x 0.125" Thick Zinc Finish Extra Heavy Fender Washer
> End Nuts (2) - GM #117212 3/8"-24 hex; Fastenal #37464 3/8"-24 Cadmium Finish Grade A Flexible Lock Nut

REAR MOUNT HARDWARE:
> Upper Mounting Assy (2) - GM #3705444; The Truck Shop #54-07609
> Lower Mounting Assy (2) - GM #3705447; The Truck Shop #54-07610
> Bolt (2) - GM #3705450 1/2"-13 x 3-1/2; The Truck Shop #54-07611
> Bolt Lock (2) - GM #3717280; The Truck Shop #54-07612

Assembly Manual part numbers & locations

Master Parts Catelog part numbers and descriptions 0.002 - 0.027 + illustration p. 95

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Bubba - Curmudgeon
Bubba - Curmudgeon
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Thanks, DADS50,

And, thanks, Lonnie

I think that Denny Graham also posted a photo-log for the front motor mount but I cannot find it.

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WOW!! I am impressed AGAIN by you folks, Talk about being led by the hand and shown what is needed to be done. I could not ask for more. Thanks again to all. Dave


1941 Chevy
"First rebuild - complete!"
Follow the story in the DITY
1941 GMC resting peacefully
1946/1947 Chevy Street rod on s10 frame complete
1945 GMC panel truck in line for restoration
1941 Plymouth stock complete
1941 GMC COE in restoration process
Read his Project Journal
1941 Chevy Coe uncertain future resting now
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,671
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Take a look at the last two pictures Homer; they should answer your question:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/1950_motor_mounts&page=all
The 7/16”-20 NF carriage bolts are not available anywhere, they are special. As are the 3/8”-24 NF.

I might add that the center bolts are part of the front plate, they were swaged in to the
plate at the factory. Often times it will be found that they have worked loose in the hole. DG

Last edited by Denny Graham; 01/03/2013 10:02 AM.

Denny G
Sandwich, IL
homer52 #908354 01/03/2013 11:42 AM
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thanks Denny


1941 Chevy
"First rebuild - complete!"
Follow the story in the DITY
1941 GMC resting peacefully
1946/1947 Chevy Street rod on s10 frame complete
1945 GMC panel truck in line for restoration
1941 Plymouth stock complete
1941 GMC COE in restoration process
Read his Project Journal
1941 Chevy Coe uncertain future resting now
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 311
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'Bolter
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I did not read this series of posts until after I had picked up my assembled block from the machinist. Lucky for me he installed the center carriage bolts before he replaced the harmonic balancer. However the dust shield was not installed. I decided to cut two slots into the upper cover so I could slide it on with the harmonic balancer in place. I installed it earlier today and everything looks fine to me.
Does anyone see any problems with the way I have done this?

Thanks,
Curt


Curt Warren
Salt Lake City
1948 1.5ton Loadmaster
http://photobucket.com/48loadmaster
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Kinda defeats the purpose of the shield. Oil can get to your rubber part of the mount and set in the retainer.

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'Bolter
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Yes. There is no reason to cut the shield. It's there because there will be some oil
leaking from the front seal eventually and it keeps it off the rubber. The engine sits
down on the mount which can be installed on the frame and the engine set down on it.
The center bolts would normally be swaged into the front plate from the factory.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/136995331
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Last edited by Denny Graham; 01/11/2013 5:12 AM.

Denny G
Sandwich, IL
homer52 #910595 01/10/2013 10:38 PM
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'Bolter
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Thanks, it did feel like cheating anyway! I will order a new one tomorrow.


Curt Warren
Salt Lake City
1948 1.5ton Loadmaster
http://photobucket.com/48loadmaster
homer52 #910749 01/11/2013 10:57 AM
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I was able to lift my engine with a floor jack high enought to install the mount.

...pic...

Of course my middle bolts were missing, if yours are not sweadged in and you can move your center bolts up a little you might be able to do the same.

Remove the nuts off the rear mounts.


Here is how the rubbe gets when oil gets to it for some time
...pic...

Mush

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D
'Bolter
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Same here Gus. Changing the motor mounts was one of the first
things that I did when I brought my '50 home in '05. I made a
saddle from 2x10's that fit the pan and jacked the front up.


DG


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Thanks for all of the encouragement and information! Today I successfully installed the front motor mount with an unmodified cover, and I feel much better about it!


Curt Warren
Salt Lake City
1948 1.5ton Loadmaster
http://photobucket.com/48loadmaster

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