The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Starting problem

I was out the other day in my 66 p/u at the local home store and when I went start the truck, it would barely turn over, then nothing. I put my foot on the brake and then tried it again and it turned over as if everything was normal. Then I went over a friends house and it started right up ( it was cold) stayed over there for an hour or so and when I went to start it, it acted like the other day at the store. Anyway it is doing this enough to know there is somything loose somewhere. I took off both the bat cables and cleaned and tightened them. Battery is good. It will go from perfectly normal to
no response. The last thing I did was disconnect the ground from the bat to the engine and retighten. I tried it 2 time in a row and it turned over. Before, I would try it once and it would give an attempt, then be dead. The ground cable is currently connected to an intake manifold bolt on the engine. Is this an ok place for the ground? Also I noticed
the cable is smaller then it should be but it is not hot. I plan on replacing all the incorrect items very shortly but would like to have this be reliable again. Anybody have ideas what is loose and causing this intermitent problem?

It could be a lack of body ground. You didn't mention it,so I don't know if you have one. There should be a ground from the battery to the engine and to the frame. I once replaced a factory cable that went from battery to body to engine with one that went battery to engine direct. I pretty much the same experience you are having.
Sometimes the electrical system will ground through a accelerator cable/speedo cable/etc. That may explain why it is intermittent. In my case, I caught it in the act as it arc across the motor mount where a junk cable was wrapped. That explained my intermittent start. A new ground to body fixed my problems.

A manifold is a lousy place to terminate the ground on the engine block. Just for grins, get a jumper cable next time and run from where you have the ground attached now to a substantial place on the block or something bolted directly to the block with no gaskets between it and the block (alternator/generator bracket). I had this problem with a rice burner I owned where the ground for the engine ran to the intake manifold. There was a small jumper wire (16 gu) between the firewall and the valve cover that smoked and fried one day and starter acted up after that just like you described for several weeks. Moved the ground to a boss right above the motor mount and never had another problem.

Thanks guys, Ill try moving the ground to a more appropriate place on the engine and also check if there is an engine to frame strap. I think that may be the problem. Will let you know.

I found the the heat from the exhuast had baked the cap in the starter silanoid, which cracked right were the bolt holding the battery cable was, it in turn got loose and the truck would not start at times or turn over slow. other times it was OK. So be sure to check you cable and wires on the starter too.

Stupid GM V8 starter solenoid location...for a while, until I became really annoyed and actually fixed the problem, I would have to pour water on my 'Vette's solenoid to cool it off if I wanted to start it up again anytime soon after a drive. I have an aftermarket heat shield that fits over the solenoid, but haven't had a chance to install it.

For the V8's use the new GM mini Hi-torque starters their not cheap but they work and last.

After the panel is done, I'm going to build a fuel-injected engine for the 'Vette. It will definately get a mini starter at that time. For now, the original is fine with a new solenoid. The first one lasted 20 years.

New ones are just not as good.
I suggest the high-torque mini-starter,works awesome

Mastkey, as several have said it's probably a ground problem. It sounds like you were getting to the problem. Carry a jumper wire. Next time it acts up hook the jumper wire to the engine, move the key to crank, then touch to jumper to a cab ground. When you stepped on the brake it may have grounded the start circut through the brake lights. Mike

Bolters:
Over the years I've found that the best way to ground a vehicle is to run the negative battery cable directly from the battery to one of the starter mounting bolts. Be sure that the threads are clean, free of grease and the starter at the connection site is free of paint. This method provides an excellent, solid ground. FYI several of the aftermarket rewiring manufacturers recommend this gounding method.

My '50 has it's original wiring, in which the battery ground is run from the battery to the frame to the front foot starter linkage bolt on the bellhousing. The wire from the battery is 4/0 and the wire from the frame is a big wide strap. You want the battery connection to not move around with engine torque because it fatigues the terminal metals.