The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop modern frame swap what to use ?

hello everyone I am wondering if any of you could advise on what modern frame would be the easiest to put a 46 1/2 ton body on so you could enjoy some of the more modern technology Thx for any advice

S-10 is probably the best for these trucks, but depends on the look you're after. Since the S-10 track width is narrower, you can either use wider wheels, or if you don't like that look you'll need to use wheel spacers.

Read here: https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=882889#Post882889

You can also do a search as there are many posts about this.

Changing out your frame, starts with doing your research (like you're doing now) know what you want for wheelbase and width.

Going 4x4 and more modern technology, is why we went for it. {Progress}<51'sub on a shortbed 4x4 74'Frame< Not an S10 it's a fullsize shortbed, wheelbase is 2"longer

Good luck with your project..

Rear axle on 4WD S-10's is 2" wider than 2WD.

like dogs51burb said just measure your wheelbase and frame and find a compareable newer vehicle with close to the same measurements. I am putting a 2001 z71 frame and running gear underneath my 1951 suburban.

or if your frame is in good condition, put in a mustang2 front end and swap out the rear axle for higher gearing. probably just as much or less fab work as using an s-10 frame. What where you going to use for a driveline? a chevy v6 or v8 with a auto trans is fairly easy to fab in with the use of the rack and pinion steering.

daren

It all depends on the finished track width and ride height you want. A Z71 (or any 2WD or 4WD half ton) has a much wider track width, and will therefore give you a much different finished look and ride height of the truck. If you're looking for something with a lowered look, this isn't your best solution.

The problem I have always found with the Mustang II swap is that while it is easier, the Mustang II was an economy car, and this front end always will handle like an economy car. While the newer ones with improved geometry are slightly better, every vehicle I've driven with the MII has had what I consider an unacceptable level of bump steer. Also, I find that the rear suspension setups on the vehicles i have driven are often a poor match in ride to the front suspension, and result in a strange ride. I prefer the ride and handling of any straight axle vehicle I've driven to the Mustang II.

The great thing about the frame swap is that the front and rear suspension is well matched to each other and you get a great ride characteristic. The geometry of the S-10 front suspension also gives you great handling. I have an 82 S-10 with a V8, and my 46 is the 4th vehicle we've done the S-10 frame swap on. They all handle like sports cars, which is much more than I can say for any MII hot rod I've ever driven. Also, if I need a suspension part, I got to any parts store and get a part for an S-10, which are typically in stock, and makes things much easier and less stressful as I typically take trips of 1000+KM with my collector vehicles.

These are just my opinions based on preferences and experience, but I feel the frame swap is a much better option.

i've never actually used a stock m2. i use the tubular kits, and most cars can't keep up with me in the hills and curves in WI. but i agree,that a frame swap is good and have done them myself b/f. to each his own.

daren

I agree with Daren. Mine is a Heidts Superide IFS Superide IFS With a 350, 700R4, and 10 bolt rear. I can almost make a u-turn in an alley. I'm more than satisfied with what I have. And no bump steer.

I agree with the frame swap and feel the ride is better. That's what we did on our '53 and we are doing presently on our '59. E-Z makes a kit that takes all the guess work out of it.

Just my 2 cents..........

Here's another S-10 CONVERSION on a 1950's truck. This one used a S-10 Frame swap kit from AD-ENGINEERING

Dang, is that a apparition? What would be the profit in producing something like that? You sure can see how it's built.

Unless your frame is shot, there's really no need to replace it. My '48 sits on the original frame but has four wheel power disc brakes, modern hydraulic shocks, a 3.73 limited slip rear and a T-10 five speed with overdrive. It's lowered four inches and has a monoleaf front suspension. It cruises at 65 mph with the engine at 2000 rpm.

The only fabrication was creating new upper mounts for the front shocks, having a driveshaft made and reversing the rear spring mounts. The rest bolted on.

Here's the truck:
Before
After - front view
After - side view
After - rear view

That's always been my philosophy.

I have a 79 AMC pacer IFS but not sure i would goo that way again bu ti have had it on since 1985 and worked reasonably well but parts are getting harder too find. i would go with a mustang II but one that engineered for your frame rather modified to fit and they are out there i would tell you who make them but it slips me right now but go to the street rod mags.

A couple of good ones are Fat Man and Heidts. There are others, just Google Independent Front Suspension.

i purchased this kit from AD-Engineering, it is an awesome kit. decided not to use it, it can be had for about half the price of a new one !!!

Why not use it?

In my opinion the swap kits are too expensive for what you get and set the body too far above the frame, but I like my trucks lowered. If you're not that comfortable with fab work they're probably great, though.

what he said !! sits the frame up too high. If you want stock hight or higher it's great. I like the lowered stance

I am trying to find out why NOT use the converson kit. It SEEMS so easy. When you factor $1800 to $2000 + shipping for a Heidts IFS. It just seems a $1000 kit plus a $150 to $250 s10 frame with all the brake lines and gas line already run, gives me alot of time and $ to spend on other things.
I just paid $150 for a 2wd s10 power steering frame (117"wb) with a 4wd rear thrown in.
What I would like to know is, what UNEXPECTED problems I can plan for. Of course body and frame arn't expected to be perfect so I don't think its all going to fall together but mounting the body to the frame should be close. Motor and trans should fall in. Power steering hooks right up to the pump maybe with longer hoses. Steering seems to be pretty cut and dry along with accelerator. Please someone tell me what serious problems I am going to have..
I thank you n advance...

Don't know the problems with an S-10; I used a Heidts. I will say that it might not make much difference if all things are equal. That assumes the S-10 parts are in good condition. However if you want to make it a "show" truck you might want to go with a Heidts or Fat Man IFS. ...just my two cents.

What is your truck? If it's the 49 Burb you mentioned in one of your other posts, you're better off to keep the stock frame. If it's a pickup, that's a different story.

The S-10 frame has the big kick-up in the rear and you'll lose a lot of your floor due to the kick-up. On a pickup it's less critical, but I don't recommend it on a burb.

There's lot of threads here about S-10 swaps, your best bet is to do some searching. They're fairly easy if you're good with fab, but there will always be issues you have to work through, and it really depends on what year cab you're working with.

It is a 49 burb. So the bed of the trucks are raised up to accept the kick-up?
Depending on the location of the kick-up, how high it is and where it is in relation to the floor, could be used as risers for the seat frames or maybe small compartments that might be used for storage.? Just thinking out loud... I like the idea of a s10 frame with the late model suspension. I had a Fatman under a 53 coupe and never got the bump-steer right. I think i'm going to look @ the s10 a little longer..
Thanks for the info very much. I need all I can get.
rodnut

It all depends on how low you put the body over the frame. I've seen a lot of attempts at using an S-10 chassis under cars, sedan deliveries, and panels that have failed and the guy has given up on.

The kickup on the S-10 is very large and starts just behind the cab and the frame is that height the whole way to the rear. My '46 and my dad's '52 both have only about 12" of box floor (about 4" or 5" less than stock since we raised the bed floor and left the bed in the stock location. On a panel this can really mess up the floor.

It's your project though, your best bet is to do tons of measuring and comparing before you decide to go ahead.

Since you've already got the s-10 frame put it beside the panel and do lots of comparing and measuring. The kits are way overpriced for what you get and are best if you're not good with fab. However, since you're doing this on a panel you're best off to go a different route if you're scared of fab (which it doesn't sound like you are).

The worst part about the kits (besides the price) is they put the body too far above the frame for my liking. To each their own though and some people like the finished look.

The best method to do the body swap onto an S-10 frame is to have your engine mounted in the correct location first, then drop the cab (or entire body in your case) on the frame with the front fenders, grille, etc, attached and then take it off, trim accordingly, and repeat. On my cab we put it on and off probably 7 or 8 times before we got everything trimmed and the cab sat where we wanted it to. Because yours is a panel this would make it much harder. Just my opinion though. Hope it turns out the way you want, which ever way you go.

I am looking @ ad-engineering and ez-swap kits and the ez kit co. has a 2" body drop. With the kick-up i'm not sure how that could possibly work with a burb. On a p/u yes on a burb, no. So I have contacted both and neither has returned my call or email.
In my messages to both I have ask both about the height of the body in relation to the frame because I to do not like to see the frame under the body. We are waiting...
If you look on the ez-swap web site the photo of the red panel looks pretty good. It appears to have small tires and no motor so the fender wells are not full and one could lower the stance by blocks and spindles. Nothing else stands out as being odd or out of shape. So we shall see. I still have a good 49 frame.
Thanks for the info again... I am paying close attention...

The AD suburban/panel used the EXACT same frame as the pickup so it fits the S10 EXACTLY the same way. There are a couple of outrigger body mount brackets that are on the sub/panel frame but they neither raise or lower the body. The floor of the pickup bed clears the top of the frame the same as the burb floor. Go to the www.ad-engineering.com site and click on "customer rides". There are several suburban/panels setting on S10 frames and require no floor alteration. Pictures of a 52 Burb in shop with NO flood mods: http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d41/coilover/

Yes, the stock pickup and suburban frame is exactly the same, so it mounts exactly the same way. The stock frame is nearly flat front to back. However, the S-10 frame is NOT flat and that's where the issue comes in. You can either have the body higher over the s-10 frame on not change the height of the box floor, or channel it over the frame more and raise the box floor (or rear floor in the case of a panel or suburban. We've done 4 S-10 frame swaps that are all heavily channeled over the frame.

The ones you are talking about are farther off the frame.

Look how far this one is off the frame, for example: http://www.ad-engineering.com/CustomerRidesTimC.html

My dad's '52 pickup sits directly on the frame at the back of the cab. That requires the floor to be raised in the box.

I just started the s10 swap with my 42. I'm using the stock s10 wheels along with the s10 drive line. In your opinion what should the height be on the cab to frame? Also can you post some pictures of the fire wall and dash on yours?

I may be able to post some pictures later in the week. You need to mount the cab with the front fenders on, just as a note. This is where you run into the most clearance issues with a 39-46 cab in this swap. Mine is about 4" off the frame because that's as low as I could go. It depends on the look and everything you're wanting.

My firewall is untouched as is the floor, but I mounted the engine in relation to where it needed to be to allow this. I'm not sure if the S-10 driveline in the stock location will cause some issues for you. You're best off to do some measurements beforehand.

Thanks for the info as this is a project that I have never tackled before but I feel that I can fabricate anything I need to do. Yes lots of measurements. Thanks again.

All good info. here. I have a standard M11 kit in front with a 4 link in rear. I am hoping it works well in the 53 panel.
Total costs were $3500. not including welding. The rest of the drive train makes it expensive.
I have a 49 burb that is a 2nd project and seriously thinking of the S10 as donour vehicle and use frame and driveline to boot.
These trucks go for cheap. I have one spotted that is an 82 already with a 350/350 in it. Worth a try. cheers guys

Can anyone direct me to folks who are using a 02 Trailblazer frame and drivetrain in the 49 burb. I would like to know the specifics on mounting, clearances etc. Off the cuff, it seems to me that a 02 TB for $4500. complete with everything is worth
considering.
cheers

Check the Archives here.

46gmcpu can we chat about your build?

Kenneth
[email protected]

Sure, what's on your mind?

Digging up an old thread.... my guess is your doing research on a new project. first... welcome to the best source of info on old trucks.

next, look at the stickies.

IFS swap is still better than a frame swap unless your frame is toast.

We have done probably a dozen AD to S10 swaps, a Dakota, several 71 or 72 Chevy pickup (disc brake) crossmembers(UGLY), a 74 Cadillac complete chassis (shorted and narrowed) with a 500 Cadillac engine all in a 51 GMC, a drag truck 50 3w cab with a complete tubing frame and 8 point roll cage, probably close to 50 Nova, Camaro/Firebird (bad idea on the latter two), a dozen Pacer IFS, and won't guess on how many MII's including back in the days we had to cut them out of a Pinto or Mustang. Have pictures of most and also have for sale a 52 frame with a Pacer IFS and a Lincoln Mark 8 IRS if you want to go exotic. With that said I would keep the original frame with a GOOD brand MII kit and a coil over rear for a modern truck APPROXIMATE ride and feel. Still will have a lot of wind noise above 55mph or so. With coil overs on all four corners you can set or change the height and ride easily and much cheaper than with any other set up. You will find the cab, bed, core support, bumpers, etc will bolt to the original frame a tiny bit easier than anything else.