The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 305 vs 350 ?

I would like some input on engines. I have a 305 engine that I could put in my 63, but I also have a 350 that I could have to put in it. The 350 is still in a 79 Chevy van that will be an adventure to get out. Anyone have experience with a 305? I have some input that the 305 would not be powerful enough for me to be happy with it, but I thought I would ask here before making my final choice.

Thanks, Rick

Easy choice...
The 350...
Parts more plentiful...

If you have to go with a v8, the 350 is a MUCH better choice. Mostly because there are SO many more possibilities for future upgrades. Also, a lot more hp from the getgo. Lastly, lots of available parts at low cost. My brothers and I have had 305s before and for the most part, they have been gutless wonders. The exception was a 79 Pontiac Sunbird. But that was a very lightweight car.
This is just my opinion, but I would opt for a 292 inline 6 before any of those bellybutton motors.

The 305,s are sluggish. The 350 is a lot more peppy. They are not all that hard to get out of a van. Remove the front bumper & grill & lower panel. Pull the radiator & condenser. Pull the carb & put a lift plate on it. Disconnect all the normal things to pull an engine. Stick a cherry picker in & lift it out.

Thanks guys, all good input and what I have been thinking and have heard from others. It not that getting the motor out of the van is so difficult it is more the location of the van. It is on my uncle's property and will be one of those out in the field (read sand and rocks) adventures. I keep telling myself it is part of the adventure of doing a project like this. We do have a bobcat available to lift and move the engine, so I am hoping for the best.

Thanks, Rick

I personally would waste my time with a 350 if you gave it to me. . . .

305durable dependable but ain't going to have the power ya want. . .
they both are long past there prime never were that great new. . .

get a diesel engine or a late modle EFI engine.
gas 5.3L 6.0L 8.1L or diesel 6.2L, 6.5L, 6.6L

best option spend some money and get a 5.9L or 6.7L like i'm going to do. . .

Use either, take the stock cam and throw it away if using the 305. A simple cam change with the 305 will get you the same power as a stock 350. However a simple cam change in the 350 will get you a little more power.

Since both are Generation 1 SBC's parts are equally plentiful for both. differing only in strokes. The ultimate SBC for trucks are a 383 (350 with 400 crank)this combination is cheap, and extremely torquey.

I ran a 305 in a mid 80's Camaro with stock TPI injection with a simple $80 cam change, and added about 40Hp / 35lb-ft torque. Netted a better feel when driving, and also got better mileage. The 305's were built by the accounting department, so they got 2 barrel carbs and crappy cams in attempt to provide low $ V8 power.

Bigmacdaddy - The mid-70's 305's had cam lobes that were almost round (no appreciable lift at all - this was worse when the cams were soft and ate themselves)

If more power is what you want, use the 350.

Same stroke (3.48), different bore. 305 has 3.737 bore and 350 has 4.000 bore if memory serves me correctly. 737 is easy to remember cause a buddy of mine flies one. I put some World Products heads (1.94 x 1.50) on my 305 and a .500 lift roller cam (Comp) with a little more duration and roller rockers, an Air Gap intake and a new Holley Avenger 570. Oh yeah, 700R4. Yee Haw

the 350 is a boat anchor at best the 305 is a gutless wonder. . .

so your choices are really :

1. no power (305).

2.spun rod bearing's (350).


I have had 4 350's 3 of them spun bearing's 4th one i gave away fast as i didn't trust it after the first 3 I may have gotten the only bad one's GM ever produced but it was enough for me to never ever run one again. . .

I've only had one true 305 and it was the
big V-6. . .

I did have 335 stroker witch was a 305-V8 with a 400 crank. . . ran decent had some power. . .

Mike. . .

I am amazed at the amount of dogging the SBC is getting here. I ran cicle track for years, and the cheapest power you can make is with a Small Block Chevy. . . period.
Never spun a bearing. . . but I never had a lubrication problem, ergo-no broke oil pumps or no oil loss = no spun bearings. I always resize my rods though, when I build a fresh one. ANd this helps to avoid failures that are build up related (If you skip a required step in building, it is not the engine fault that it broke it's your fault) I never built and raced the 305, but I raced against several. They ran very good in a stock class where we were limited to a two barrel carb. A cam with .450 to .500 lift will wake it up considerably, and will only require that you switch to a set of $29 Z-28 valve springs. (Increasing lift on stock used springs is a bad idea). Like was said earlier, it will pretty much make it run as good as a stock 350.(about 200 horses) The issue with 305 is much more about the sorry @$$ cam than the smaller displacement. But hey, If I could get a free or cheap ($200 or less) 305, I would happily spend $100 an a cam and springs to make a good engine out of it.
As for the 350. A .500 lift cam, Vortec heads, 750 carb, good intake, and an upgrade your Hei. . . You have created a monster which will scare anyone brave enough to stick there foot in it. A cheap Monster- LOL

Well, let's see- - - -so far the resident experts have reccomended that you over-cam and/or overcarburete the 305, and install heads that will lower the compression ratio. Yep, we've got a crew of real experts here! Then we've got one authority who believes that a rattling, stinky kerosene-burner is required to get any real power. I've got dyno run sheets that document power outputs in the 600+ horsepower range out of a 350, and run sheets on a 305 in the 500 HP neighborhood. One destroked 305 I built turned in 475 HP at a max RPM of 8,500, with a displacement of 255 cubic inches. All these engines were round-track types that would stay together a lot longer than a couple of passes down a drag strip, usually half a season on a 1/4-mile dirt track.

Horsepower costs money- - - - -how much can you afford?
Jerry

Incredible.


Stuart

i went threw 3 GM good grench fresh out of the crate 350's in my 66 chevy C-30 that same year i bought my 62 GMC 4x4 dually Had the Big V6 . . .that 379M-V6 out worked them 350's and by fare out lasted them as the V-6 is still around getting used every summer while the other truck was long sold off. . . the 4th 350 was a junk yard special last the rest of that summer.

over the winter i built a 406 SBC sold the truck to my brother and the old 406 is still running strong. . .

so as far as i'm concerned the 350 chevy is nothing more the a paper wieght my a boat anchor extra weight for traction in the snow ?. . . :blat:

HotRod Lincoln,
You sound like you have some experience with the 305 Sprint class or a similar one. I saw that class run at West Memphis Ar. last year. Many people watched in amazement and uttered "How in the world do they make a 305 put out that much?" Like I said the 305's I ran against were all on 500 Rotchesters with a cam (not too much because of a vacum rule). I also believe over carberating is a waste and counterproductive.
I have seen some 350's that were pushing over 400 horses without nitros or boost. From your experience, just how much can you get from a stock stroke and bore 350 with good heads, intake, carb, and hydraulic cam?

I put a stock 350 in my 63 C-10 and my enhancements consist of a Quadrajet, a Howards cam of roughly .450 lift, and a set of headers. It is very healthy but in hind site I should have put even a little less cam in it so it would idle better and the stock torque converter would work better.

If I had had a 305 I would have used it only I might have stayed with a 2 barrel.

Rick,
If your asking for a choice between stock engines, the 350 is clearly the way to go. Over the last 25 years I've had many of these engines in all kinds of cars and trucks, stock and highly modified. I haven't experienced the problems with mine that I've read here. If that is your question, the stock 350 will do a more than adequate job in a bolt.

Greg

I STILL STAND BEHIND MY STATMENT. . . boat ancher paper weight snow traction. . .

Get a diesel. . .

Mike out. . .

I don't understand 379MV6GMC-K3000, the 406 and the 350 are both small block chevy's. Why dog one and support the other?

Not everybody is crazy about a diesel in there truck. I had a 2000 model 3500 dodge and I LOVED my cummins, but it was a work truck. I drive a gas burner in a half ton , run to the store, truck.
But thats me.

simply because i had to pull the 350's out of my
C-30 4 Times !!! I also went threw 2 350's in my 92'tran's AM GTA !but the T/A got beaten hard so i don't count tho's, I built a MPI 406 has twice the miles on it now as the 2 350's combined still run's perfect. . . the 2 bolt main 30 over 10.5:1 406 that i put in the 66 chevy C-30 is still alive and well haul's 12 to 14 thousand pound loads routinely. . .

so when one SBC last and other don't why suport them both ? a 400sbc is a big block rotating assembly in a small block houseing. it ain't a rever by nature tho it can be built to do so. . . when building 400SBC I build it as tho it where a 402,427 or 454. . . same cam profile and such. . .

my work is my every day truck i'm alway's working . . my AMX and T/A haven't been driven in 2 year's. . . :mad:

Quote "a 400sbc is a big block rotating assembly in a small block houseing"

:whistle:

OK

:whistle:

Done here

The 400 is not a big block rotating assembly in a smallblock case, it's really a criiter unto itself. Originally introduced as a passenger car emmisiions engine. Crank is cast, not forged like the 350.
I can understand your frustration, but the 350 is an extremely reliable and very well performing engine. There's more 350s out there than any other engine ever made. They've powered everything from hi performance Corvettes (no 400 in a 'Vette) to police and taxi cabs. I've seen police versions go well beyond 200k miles without an overhaul, just regular maintanance. Seems to me that you may have gotten dud engines, probably not assembled properly to begine with, rather than it being a 350 as the problem.

I don't care why they failled they did i got MAD! many time's not worth the stress and down time I'll never use that engine again simple. . .
my uncle ran 350's in his whole fleet of tow truck's many of them lived 250-300K mile's, he had one 454 that hit 340somthing thousand mile's than intake warped took out a few valves that was the end of that one. . .

Mike

There's more 350s out there than any other engine ever made. They've powered everything from hi performance Corvettes (no 400 in a 'Vette) to police and taxi cabs.

just cause they made alot of them don't mean they were the best just cheap fast and easy . ..

I've seen 400's in truck's caprice's monte's motor home's seen dozen's of them at various race track's as well. . .

i have seen them over heat and crack head's a million time's. . .never had one do it to me. . . KNOCK ON WOOD!

anywho rightly don't care i put in my 2 cent's worth and got questioned 40 way's from sunday. . .I never was much for the common massproduced every body has type of thing's anyhow. . .witch would more than likely be why i like them Big V-6's so much one of the best gas engine's i have seen . . . Now your opinion might differ may think them v-6's are junk crap i would ask why you would tell me i hate them because bla bla i'd be ok than sound's good. . .

I perfer diesel's and over built truck's only need a 1ton get a 2ton instead. . .

A lot of good suggestions but being a stovebolt lover, I would opt for the 292 with flat top pistons or at least low dish, decked block and a little head shaving. Put in a modest cam, arp rod bolts, balanced and slightly larger intakes for breathability (1.84) and you've got lots of torque with good performance with reliability and ease of service. SBC are so common place, Yawn, but a modest built 292 is another matter. You can put in a 4bbl, one single, two singles or three with cast iron headers. Three would not lack for anything and you won't be disappointed driving it. Just my idea. The 305 is just a small bored 350. Same stroke. Some headwork and a Crower Baja Beast cam and it will run good. 350s are thirsty. Have just had one pulled out and I still have another one in my 90 van. It gets 18-19 hwy which is not bad. The other one got 14-15 and 11-12 city with FI. It is in mint condition. I'm the second owner and sold it to a friend who is feeding a 454 at 8 mpg city right now with a 5 speed. I'd sell the sbc to someone who wants one. Think about the 292. My Dad got 20 on the hwy with a stock engine and a 3 speed stick and hwy gears on his 67 Chevy 3/4 ton 2wd.

the 292 now there is a good strong engine in my " opinion " did you know you cam up them 292's and get 10.2:1 compression they sound tough idling . . .

My stepfather talks about drag racing at an old army air base in my town. He said a good 292 could run with any 283 or 327 out there. We were at an old mans junk yard a couple years ago. There was a retired stock car in the field with a 292 in it. Man did my step father drool over that. Him and the guy sat there talkin about how those six's were great and need more respect and . . . Needless to say I had to drag him away. He is a die hard "old school" racer.
He gave me my 63 and I thought he was going to shoot me when I told him the 250 had to go. :rolleyes:

How about a circle track 6? (I'm not sure of the CID)
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2471476220092261295axPLGq
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2830062810092261295CsmlJD

My chevy C-10 has a 250 in it fine engine wasn't a fan of the 3spd so i swapped it for a granny 4spd work's great now. . . was thinking of up grading at some point to a 292 or 400 sbc. . .

might go with a DIESEL! or a GMC V-6! not sure yet when i gotta deal with a ill deside then. . .

Duke, some of the best-running 350's I've built ran a Comp Cams hydraulic setup with about 290 degrees of duration, and around .425" to .450" lift, at 106 degree lobe centers. Unless you're going to run above 6,000 RPM regularly, the 1.94" intake valves are all that's needed. Increase the size of the exhausts to 1.6", and do a good pocket porting job. If you're not worried about passing an external inspection, round out the exhaust ports to match the diameter of the headers. Use equal-length header tubes for all cylinders. If the port modifications can be inspected by just removing headers/manifolds, keep them stock-appearing. With the above setup, plus flattop forged pistons and an Edelbrock 650 CFM carb and matching intake, you should see 500+ HP and still have pretty good low-end torque. Use an ignition system capable of 6,000+ RPM without spark scatter, something like a Mallory Unilite or an MSD.

The 305's were all-out race engines, with 3" stroke lightweight cranks, for a CID of 255 cubic inches. The rotating assembly, consisting of a 38-lb. billet crankshaft, Honda-sized H-beam rods, and ultralight pistons, cost about $5,000.00. A roller cam and a rev kit, plus titanium valves and retainers, allowed them to get well above 8,000 RPM reliably. Those little things sounded like a bumblebee on steroids!
Jerry