The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop sterring oil and adjustment

Hi guys I have a 58 3600 4 on the floor. My steering is somewhat loosy goosy 1.I would like to firm it up a bit if possible. Thought I would start by adding oil. There is 4 sided bolt on the top of the steering box. Can I assume this is the fill plug and there is no drain plug. 2. I have heard ther is an adjustment you can do with a screw and lock nut, Can anyone elaborate on that
Thanks Rick

Rick,

You should use a self-leveling grease such as John Deere Corn Head Grease.

The adjustment procedure is described in the Shop Manual.

Follow this manual and you will do fine. Corn head grease is a good product, flows back in on itself, is thick enough not to leak past the seal, and is dirt cheap from most John Deere dealers.
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/booklets/5220mts01.htm

Joe

OK I gotta say I am a little intimidated by all that. I was hoping for an easy adjustment and not a rebuild. I'll have to ponder that one for awhile.
Thanks for the info though
Rick

Rick,

Just start with the J.D.cornhead grease and then the adjustment, you'll probably find that is all it needs. When all else fails then rebuild the box.


-Mike-

Have you looked at the adjustment procedure in the 1958 Shop Manual?

Just start at page 29 (adjustments) in the manual I linked, all gear boxes are pretty much the same when it comes to adjusting.

What is in the gear box now? nasty watered down greasy oily crap, or decent looking gear oil? That should determine if you need to clean it out or not. Pull the side cover and rinse it out with solvent and brushes if you don't want to pull it all the way out.

If your truck set out in the weather or had no windshield, water can get into the gear boxes. There is no seal at the steering shaft so water can run down the steering column tube right into the gear box. I had to go through four boxes to find one with out water damage to lower bearing when I was working on mine.

Joe

I recently completed the rebuild of my '52 steering box. Fortunately, there was very little wear and all it needed was a good cleaning and new seal/gaskets. Not wanting to find or wait for cornhead grease, I made my own by mixing 140 weight gear oil with all purpose grease. I dialed in the viscosity to my liking.

Yes sorry, I see adjustments now, Not sure how I missed that. Anyway 3 questions. Dont laugh, 1. will a fish scale work for messuring pounds? 2. What is the steering connecting rod. 3. do the wheels need to be off the ground?
Rick

I can vouch for the fish scale, I've used one to set the steering knuckle bearing shims on a 60 GMC 4x4.

Pounds are pounds, fish or otherwise. :>)

Apparently John Deer outlets are somewhat scarce in these parts. Any other options for the cornhead grease

Green Tractors Inc.
24A Regan Road
Brampton ON L7A1A7
Canada
9058462511
Visit our web site 18.0 kilometers

2. Green Tractors Inc.
6770 King Road
Nobleton ON L0G1N0
Canada
9058590581
Visit our web site 35.3 kilometers

3. Premier Equipment Ltd.
8911 Wellington Road 124
Ospringe ON L7J2L9
Canada
5198339332 41.1 kilometers


http://www.greenpartstore.com/search.asp?keyword=corn+head+grease&search.x=0&search.y=0

I think the manual says the steering arm has to be disconnected. When you check your adjustments you don't want any drag on the steering gear.

You fill the box through the square head plug seen in FIG.9
Fig 7 shows the most common adjustment needed.

Ok I took off the filler nut and stuck my pinky in. There was some blackish/brown grease in there. Didn't look to old. Certainly not up to the filler nut level. The manual says to use "multi purpose gear lubricant" which translates into "grease" - right? Cant I just put in multi purpose grease?

Grease does not flow out to the bushings. With a good pitman seal 90w is fine, did I say with a good seal.

If you have a lot of side-to-side play in your steering, does the adjustment shown in figure 7 address that?

A steering gear lubricant is instructed in step 8 at the upper left of this page. A self-leveling grease will flow (that is its purpose). If you cannot find the correct grease (such as Deere Corn Head Grease, available via mail order), use the thickest oil you can find.

Is the side-to-side play in the steering mechanism (do you turn the wheel and not get immediate response)? Or, is the side-to-side play in wandering side-to-side when driving?

- Have you checked for looseness in your other steering parts?
- Have you adjusted the toe-in?

Here are lists of Trobles & Remedies:
Section 6 - Steering Gear Assembly - steering gear and toe-rod ends
Section 3 - Front Suspension - "Road Wander"?

rickyt -

You will need to remove the pitman arm to adjust the play in the steering box. Don't know about the cold dark north, but here in Flordia, Advance Auto Parts will loan a pitman arm puller for free. Other auto parts stores probably do the same.

Good luck with your steering adjustments. I dreaded driving my '54 before I adjusted the steering - had over a quarter turn of free play in the steering. Now it's tight and a pleasure to drive. My only cost was for a fish scale.

Wondering where you guys have bought a fish scale that works for adjusting steering? I've looked around and what I've found is to heavy of a scale. I'd like to find a 0-5 lb. Thanks Don

You might try the sporting goods section of Sears, Walmart, Sports Authority, or any such like. I think that is where I found mine.

Don't remember where I bought it. Here's a pic from the Sears site showing the one that I bought. Digital 50# scale, so it also reads small weights, too.

You can remove the pitman arm from the gear box (it's sometimes very difficult ) or you can remove the drag link from the pitman arm. If thats to much work, just jack the front tires up and go about the adjustment. Its not the ideal way but will get you pretty close. When setting the center preload adjustment, add a little to the scale to compensate for the rest of the steering joints still hooked up.

If you have decent looking grease in the box, add some liquid gear oil to thin it out some and/or top off the box. Don't fill it to the top or you will push lube up the steering column. Just get enough to cover the gear teeth.

While the front is off the ground, check the tie-rod ends, king pins, and drag link ends. Its also a good time to grease them.

If you really want to change grease or add some, look for a grade 0, 00, or 000, with 000 being the thinest . Grease is measured on a scale, 0 and down will self level or run easily. 1,2,3,and up, get thicker and denser the higher the number. Corn head grease is a 0 grade. You want grease/oil that flows back to its original location and level, standard grease gets pushed out of the way and just sets there, never returning to the gear mesh area.

Joe

Thanks, Lonnie, that's a good find (good price).

The mechanical (spring) fish-scale that I bought about 10 years ago for a few about $5 from Walmart is no longer available.

Before obtaining the scale I had always looked skeptically at the adjustment procedure in the Shop Manual. After doing the procedure, I wondered why I had put it off for so long. It was easy to do and resulted in easily noticeable improvements in steering-tightness and minimal wandering.

It would be nice if TSC would start carrying (or special ordering) the Deere Corn Head Grease.

Thanks, Joe. Great information. When you say "setting the center preload adjustment," do you mean removing the lash in the worm gear? The really large nut at the front end of the box with the slotted screw in the center? As I read the manual, that happens first and then you remove the lash in the sector gear, correct?
I wish they would say "play" instead of "lash." It screws me up for some reason.

The play in my steering wheel (if we use a clock) is about 2 hours in one direction. If I hold my hand a 12 noon and turn to the left I can get to 10 oclock when the wheels starts to move. Some might not think that is too bad. But I think I am going to attempt the adjustments on the weekend. Sometimes I contemplate them for to long. I'm going in. Thanks for all the info it has been very helpful. Tie rods are fine. I dont know what to look for in king pin. But when jacked up everything seems tight Thanks Rick

Ricky, I have about the same amount of play in mine. Yesterday, I tightened the lash adjusting screw and eliminated all the freeplay. On my '56, though, there isn't enough room to get a screwdriver in where you can hold the adjusting screw while you're clamping the lock nut down. You need some kind of right angle flat head screwdriver type thing. Like a flat head bit in a ratchet.
I did discover that my tie rod is severely bent. How I didn't discover it until now is a mystery to me. The wheels were pointing in two different directions. I guess that would explain a thing or two.

Joe, the large nut and lock ring at the bottom sets the bearing preload of the steering shaft (what the steering wheel is hooked to). You shouldn't be able to pull up on the wheel and get any movement. Tighten it as you would any wheel bearing, go tight and back off, then tight and back off, till you get a feel for where the lash ( play ) ends. You want it just tight enough the bearings make contact with the race.

The next adjustment moves the steering sector ( pitman shaft ) in and out to mesh with the worm gear ( steering shaft ). The more you move it in, the tighter the mesh is and the tighter the steering is. GM designed the gears to be extra tight right on center to hold the wheel straight ahead. This is where the scale comes into play. As you pull the steering wheel across center, it should be much tighter on one spot. Sometimes if the gear is is really worn, you can not find the center and parts will need changed. Once you find center and get the scale to read the right pounds of pull, tighten the lock nuts and you are done. Be sure the box has lube in it before adjusting.

Next thing would be to check toe-in adjustment. While the wheels are up, scribe a line around the center of the tread. Lower the truck and roll it back 4 to 5 feet then forward 4 to 5 feet so the tires and steering are setting in the normal driving position and all the slack is taken out. Take a tape measure and measure scribe line to scribe line at the rear of the tires 10" up from the ground, then the same at the front of the tires 10" up from the ground. The front measurement should be 1/8" less the the rear, or toe-in.

If you steering arms or drag link is wrong or bent, and the steering wheel is not centered when driving, you won't get a good feel in the steering wheel because of the tight center adjustment. Find out why the wheel is not centered, don't just move the wheel on the shaft. I like to check this with the drag link unhooked. Rotate the steering wheel to the far right, then count turns to the far left. Go 1/2 the distance, and the steering wheel should be dead straight. Do it a few times and if not, this is the time to move it. Using the stops in the gear box are more accurate then the steering stops on the axle. You should also find the center tight spot when checking this way.
Joe

Thanks, Joe. That would make a good tech tip.
I've always wondered if things like camber, caster, toe-in, etc. could be measured by the shade tree mechanic or whether it could only be done in a garage with the proper equipment. If your margin of error is only 1/8", it seems there are lots of chances to go wrong with a tape measure and scribe marks on the tires. Never having tried it, I don't know, but I was wondering.

Made an attempt at adjusting my steering today. I had the tie rod off because it was bent, so I did this with the driver's side wheel still connected and the front end on jack stands.
First I checked for freeplay in the worm gear and found none. I figured I'd back the adjustment screw out until I got a little play and then go back in the other direction until snug. But no matter how much I backed the adjustment screw out, I never got any freeplay. I assume this should be up and down play along the length of the steering shaft. I just put the screw back where it was originally, tightened the locknut and went to the sector gear.
There was a lot of freeplay here. When I grabbed the pittman arm and moved it, it would go back and forth. I removed all the play, tightened the lock nut, installed the repaired tie rod and put the front end back on the ground.
Result: Steering is way better than it was but I've still got loads of freeplay in the steering wheel. I'm sure not having a tie rod that's bent at a 30-degree angle helps, but the steering is still lousy. Should I do the adjustment with the wheels on the ground? I'll get under it tomorrow and have a friend move the steering wheel gently back and forth to see if something else is loose under there.
One thing I noticed is that I can grab the tie rod with my hand and roll it back and forth, like toward the front of the truck and toward the back. I'd guess it moves about 3/8 of an inch in either direction. The sockets in the tie rod ends are kind of ovalled, but I'm not sure if they were manufactured that way or if it's wear.

Hi Joe, I asked that same question some time ago.My tire rod moves forward and back about a half inch. Apparently that is ok as long as it doesn't move side to side. But I am brand new to this stuff.
Rick

I went thru the adjustment procedure on our '40 last year. Once I followed the service manual procedure to the letter it worked great. You need to follow all the steps and find a fish scale also. If you have a bent tie rod your toe in is probably way off.

Joe sounds like you worked out some of the problem, but you need to keep going. If you took out all the lash, you shouldn't have any movement at the steering wheel that doesn't move the tires at the same time. Next time, set the steering wheel slightly off center and tie it down with the seat belt or rope so it won't move. Then work on the lash adjustment again. Once you remove all the free play, the wheel should tighten up as you cross center going left to right and them back with the steering wheel (about 2 pounds of pull).

If the toe-in adjustment is off, you will never get a good feel for the road when driving, they wonder all around and have a looseness about them. Caster angle will do the same thing. Does it have a wedge spacer under each front spring? These tilt the king pins towards the cab. Camber is not adjustable will out a hugh press to bend the axle.

The 1/8" toe-in is just a starting point and a good number to shoot for, with two people, its pretty easy to hit if the tie-rod turns easy. A bent tie-rod end won't hurt if the adjustment is still correct.

Just keep at it, you almost got it.

Joe

Just to be clear, the above statement is not how the "book" says to adjust the bearing preload. Instead, the lash adjustment should be fully backed off (loose), pitman arm removed, steering wheel one turn off center (i think). Then, the bearing cap should be tightened so the scale reads between 1 and 1.5 pounds to move the steering wheel. Then the lash is adjusted...

This is all good information. I'm going to go at it again and this time will try to do everything exactly as the manual says. A few questions:
When checking for freeplay in the worm gear, what do you do? Get in the cab and pull up on the steering wheel? That is the only way I can see to check it. Why do you suppose I was never able to get any freeplay in the worm gear no matter how much I backed the screw out?
Same question for checking freeplay in the sector gear. Do you check at the steering wheel inside the cab or is there some other way to check? Since the Pittman arm will be off, there isn't really anything you can move to check for freeplay, is there?
And the last question: What do you guys use to turn the huge screw at the worm gear end? I was using the end of a prybar, which was OK, but I'd like to find something better.
By the way, I do have a fish scale and was using it for the adjustment.

OK, much better this time. I now have tight steering that stays in a straight line when I take my hands off the wheel. This afternoon I started from scratch. I discovered that I did not tighten the lash anywhere near enough. I was checking for freeplay at the Pittman arm and not at the steering wheel. This time I used the fish scale to measure the pull at the wheel until I got the required 2 lbs. The other mistake I made yesterday was that I thought that after the sector gear adjustment, the pull was supposed to be 1 to 1 1/2 lbs. It pays to read the directions twice. There's a big difference between 1 and 2 with this steering gear.
I did not yet do the toe-in adjustment and I notice that once I get the truck up to about 25 or 30, there is some wandering. So tomorrow I'll set the toe-in and see what that does.
I definitely feel the tighter drag is I bring the wheel across center. It comes back on turns and stays straight in the road. Thanks to everyone for their advice and help.

Joe H -

I adjusted my steering box a couple of years ago. I removed the play in the steering, the truck runs straight down the road and returns to straight when I make a turn. However, the steering wheel sits a quarter turn clockwise when driving straight. I believe that I read somewhere that this is caused by wear in the box when I took out the play in the steering.

Not sure I follow your post (quoted below) re: centering my steering wheel. Can it be done / should it be done on my truck?

Thanks,

What you need to figure out Lonnie is weather the box and wheel are off or the box and linkage is off.

You will need to unhook the linkage and check the steering box for center. Go lock to lock and cut that number in half. If the wheel is not correct, remove it and place it where it needs to be. The old ( '37) trucks used a keyway so this isn't a option. At some point later GM went to the splined shaft and the wheel will fit anywhere. If you find the wheel is centered on the gear box, you need to check the linkage.

I don't believe you can have enough wear inside a steering box to cause the wheel to be off center. If it was, I doubt you could get it adjusted.

The front axle placement can change the steering wheel location 1/4 turn or more very easy. Look at the drag link and see which way it moves when you put the steering wheel in the straight ahead location. If it moves forward, thats the way the axle needs to move. Loosen the u-bolts and pull the axle forward with a cable puller or ratchet strap. You are just trying to get all the slop out of the alignment pins.

I ended up having a adjustable drag link made so I can dial in the steering dead on straight. What I had made looks just like a tie-rod setup only shorter. Mine was always off center and I never could see why. I had three different gear boxes in the truck, and all three were the same so something in the linkage was off. It doesn't take much adjustment of the drag link to really turn the steering wheel. Even caster shims can change the wheel location, anything that moves the steering arm closer or farther away from the pitman arm will change the steering wheel location.

Joe

Thanks, Joe -

This may be my next project on the truck. I appreciate the easy to understand info that you gave in this thread.