The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 runs great when it starts.

I have a 1950 3600 with a 216. The 216 is rebuilt, has a new head, new valves, fuel pump and on and on. It is very hard to start but once running is very smooth with plenty of power for a 216. It does not like to be started though hot or cold. does this sound electrical or fuel system related. Any ideas are appreciated.

Is the electrical system 6 volt, or 12? 6-volt ignition systems are bad about having starting problems, especially if the cranking speed gets a little low. Check the voltage available at the + terminal of the coil during cranking. It should be a steady 4.5 volts or more on a 6 volt system, or at least 9 volts on a 12V coil. Repair connections and/or grounds as required. Don't forget to check the voltage drop across the ignition switch. It should be less than 2/10 volt from the battery supply wire at the ignition switch to the ignition coil + terminal.
Jerry

ajoe,

The engine must spin over adequately, have the proper supply of fuel and spark, and the mechanicals such as valve lash and timing must be within specs. If you have new ignition components, the timing is proper and the valves are set correctly, my bet would be on a carburetion glitch.

Do you have a choke? Does it start easier if you choke it? If your carburetor has a weak bladder, it might be flooding the engine. Before you start it, stomp the throttle to the floor and hold it for 60 seconds or so...don't let it up! With it still down, try to start the truck.

If it is a carb problem, it should start easier with the choke pulled partially out...OR, it should start easier doing the 'stomp the pedal' routine.

If these make no difference, verify all your tune up specs...point gap, timing, plug gap and valve lash. If you pull a plug wire while cranking the engine over (key ON), a spark should easily jump a 1/4" air gap to ground.

Make sure your exhaust system isn't mashed or plugged too. Good luck and keep us posted.

Stuart

This is a 6 volt system, manual choke, valves are all lashed to spec hot, gap is correct on points and plugs, plug actually look good and clean AC-R45 i think. I need to check voltages, new points and condenser and now a new coil.

Atomarc, so far I have just about always had to choke it to start hot or cold, part of that problem was the cracks in the old head between 3 and 5 pistons and the warpped intake which is all taken care of now. It really idles nice and has plenty of acceleration and power.

Did you install new battery cables? If so, did you put large enough cables for the 6 volt system?

The typical 4 guage cables for 12 volt just aren't heavy enough for the current draw ona 6 volt system. Won't spin the enigine fast enough.

more info as to what it does...doc

It has new cables, heavy for 6 volt. When I try to start it it cranks and cranks without firing like it is starved for fuel but I can smell fuel. When it starts it is rough for a minute but smooth out quickly and will go to idle speed and run just fine. I drive it, it heats up to around 180 and is fine. If I shut it off it won't restart until it cools to about 125. The fuel pump is new, double action, the carb is rebuilt. Last time it stopped I did not see a good spark. Can its generator system over charge and heat up the coil. The amp meter does not indicate overcharge and it does not destroy the battery. I plan to make sure all the grounds are clean.

ajoe,

Things are not adding up in the carburetor dept! Having to choke when warm, and wait awhile for a restart when warm are problems at different ends of the spectrum. To get back to square one, look at the exhaust for black smoke when you are going through these schizms. This will help diagnose the problem.

Stuart

You may have a weak spark which is even less when you are cranking because of the lower system voltage. A coil on it's way out will sometimes act up when it is warm. What I would do is try disconnecting the feed to the coil and power it with another source like a battery charger. If this makes a big diference in starting than you have got the culprit diagnosed.

Run a jumper lead directly from a known good battery voltage like the starter end of the + cable to the + coil terminal and try to start it. If it starts quicker, track down the source of the voltage loss through the ignition switch circuit. A 55 International I fixed several years ago with your exact symptoms had been to every shop in town, repeatedly, and was dropping over 1 volt at a dirty, loose connection on the back of the ignition switch. After that fix, the truck owner was convinced I could walk on water!

It is sounding like the problem I am having may be multiple causes. I am putting on a newly rebuilt carb Rochester B, new coil, I will polish all the grounds and connections and run voltage and amperage tests on the regulator. I will let you know what happens

Hotrod Lincoln, that's a good idea, I really appreciate all the good advice. Thanks

You might also try retarding the timing a bit. My 216 (before I got rid of it) had trouble starting if the timing was too advanced. It ran fine but wouldn't start easily.

Well here is the final answer. It was the coil.
How does the coil mount on a 216? upside down above the distributer right, thats where the manual shows it. I did learn one thing though, new replacement coils will not work upside down. I tried 3 different coils and finally put one in right side up and it fired right up and runs and starts great. Thanks for all the advice

All the official manual photos show the coil upside down. I think that they did this to drive the mechanics crazy. I sure didn't install mine upside down!

Thanks for sharing your success story, it was great to hear.

My coil is installed right-side up.