The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop orange peel with acryillic enamal paint

This is my first time using acryillic enamal paint and I have too much orange peel in paint. Using A GRAVITY GUN. I think that I don't have it adjusted properly. Using recommended air-30 at the compressor which makes for about 8-10 coming out of the gun. Any suggestions? More air, more paint, slow down so appling "wetter" ? I have previously painted motorcycles with base coat clear coat and could sand out the rough in the clear. But with this stuff, what u spray is what u get. It looks like the more coats I put on the slicker it looks. Some areas are just fine while others are not, even running the paint to make sure I'm wet enough. And one other thing. Yellow sure seems awfully hard to cover gray primer. Like 6-8 coats!!!

You need to be measuring air pressure at the gun with the trigger pulled wide open. What ever pressure the manufacture recommends is at the gun running wide open. If your gravity feed gun is a HVLP unit it will probably only call for 10# at the air cap but that is not a measurement that is normally checked. I am no painting expert but I have made very possible mistake, some several times, and that is what worked for me.

Chuck

You can color sand the orange peel out and buff. Seems you are not atomizing the paint properly. Try widening the fan and/or closing down the material control slightly.

Remember, HVLP means HIGH volume. If you dont get the spray pattern right, you end up with large droplets of paint that have a lot of solvent in them....orange peel. If you change the fan control, you must then re-adjust the volume control and check your spray pattern. The wider the fan, the more it breaks up the droplets. When checking spray pattern, look for cigar shape that is solid in the middle and (progessive)smaller dots around edges. Pull trigger wide open as fast as you can and release at painting distance to check spray pattern.

30 psi at gun inlet is proper. You can adjust slightly to help with atomization, but I find I can get what I need with fan and volume control. Practice on scrap metal before shooting your finished product (each and every time).

Oh eay, I am not an expert either, just a hobbiest, so take it for what it is worth.

If it's taking 6-8 coats to cover the primer, my guess is that you need more paint volume. From what you say the pressure is probably pretty close. Make sure your gun is not partially clogged, and you might need a bigger or smaller nozzle.

Some solid color shades, yellow, red, etc, are semi-translucent and don't cover well. For better coverage choose a tinted primer closer to the color you are spraying. For brighter colors like viper red, I use a white sealer under those.

Having said that, needing 6-8 coats to cover sounds more like you're not getting enough material through the gun. Are you sure it's orange peel or perhaps the paint is spraying a bit dry, are the solvents matched to the temperature?

Good point, if the gravity gun has one of those plastic strainers between the cup and gun, check that it is clean. These will often be the culprit in slowing down the paint flow. Pull them out altogether when spraying high build primers, they really block the flow with those.....

Several coats are required to cover the primer especialy if the paint is a bright color.

I find that with the paint I reduce the paint with a little reducer. ( not a lot ) Also I usally spray my paint at a higher tip pressure than what the directions call for.

Funny thing I suppose. I usally spray at the sound it makes when spraying and I do not look at the pressure gaauge.

Also a nice wide spray patern. Light even coats and more coats work out well for me.

I started spraying years ago and learned by trial and error. So my word may not be as the book reads.

With that many coats of paint, wet sand it with 1200 then 2000 grit paper then buff this will remove the orange peel.

Some good advice. Thanks everyone. I just got home and looked at it again. Some areas are perfect. Well- really slick, like it should be. Other areas are just a little rough. I will practice this weekend on adjusting the gun. It can't be far off if I'm already getting some nice areas. It looks like the areas that got more paint are the areas that are acceptable. Believe me I was "pounding" it on mainly because it wasn't covering, so it was definitely applied wet.
By the way, it's a new (middle of the road as far as price) HVLP gun so it's not dirty. I am using the coldest thinner. Good for up to 75 degrees. It was only 55-60 that day so that might've been a little cool. 65-75 is most likely the best temp. for that thinner. It was trial and error learning, and buying the right equipment during the welding process, so I guess this is the same. Live and learn. It's hard not having someone right there teaching you but it makes it all the more satisfying when u finally get it right. Thanks again, I'll update this weekend.

Oh, one more thing. I don't know if I was consciously holding the trigger all the way open or not. That could've been the problem right there, especially since some areas came out so good. I'll have to keep that in mind this weekend. Dumb not thinking about that- but hey I'm honest- I'm just trying to think of everything at this point!!! Pray for warm weather!!! I'm doing this outside!!-unfortunatly.

I prepared the cab on my 52 3100 again (3rd time)and repainted it this weekend. I even bought a new gun, trying anything at this point to stop wasting paint= money. Same results- a little to much orange peel and not covering. I bet I've got 10 coats of paint on this d#$& thing and it just doesn't cover. I even painted the doors vertically instead of horizontally to try and get the weak covered streaks to cover. I've used 5 quarts of paint so far and it still isn't right. I know, practice on a small piece first. My son who lives in Lawton Oklahoma and paints quite a bit seems to think it is a chemical problem. Like not having the right combo of ingretients- (spelling) He said adjusting the gun just isn't that hard and if that were the problem I would've gotten it by now. He said he had the same simptoms one time and one of his "additives" was 1 number off and that it made all the difference. Once he got the right stuff it went on like glass. Besides, I am not exactly a rookie at painting. I've done base coat/clear coat on many motorcycle tanks and fenders., without to much problem. Anyway here is what I am using.
Centari 5.0 SS Armour Yellow Acrylic Enamal- 8 parts
Valspar Uni-Solvent Fast #171- 2 parts
Transtar Super Wet Look Acrylic Enamal Catalyst #8108-1 part

I'll call the paint store today and see if possibly there was a mistake in selling me something that wasn't correct. The guy that sold me the supplies is really knowledgable so I don't think he messed up. Anything is possible though I guess. If that isn't the problem I don't know what I'm gonna do. One thing that is totally out of the question though is giving up. Ain't gonna happen. This ain't gonna whip me!!!

One more simptom- The paint dries REALLY fast. I know the uni-solvent fast #171 is meant to dry fast but I'm talking 10 minutes and it's dry!!! Is that about right?

I am no expert when it comes to painting, but like you I've done a fair amount with reasonable success. I have sprayed quite a bit of DuPont Centari acrylic enamel with 8093S reducer and 793S hardener without any problems. I would suggest staying within the DuPont paint systems and using what they recommend rather than using these other brands. You may well have a compatibility issue in mixing these different brands. Remember too that the reducers are temperature sensitive and you have to match them with the temperature you are spraying in.

I just called the paint store and the chemicals are compatable. He said I have the right stuff. They only sell Dupont related stuff and this guy knows his stuff and has always supplied me with the correct paint etc. before. The temp is the only thing that I am questioning right now. It may have been a little too cool when I painted. You see I have a 8X8 paint booth set up for motorcycle parts but obviously that is too small for the cab. It's still on the frame. So I've been painting outside. I can do fenders, hood, and even the bed inside under more controlled circumstances. So next weekend I'll do several small parts in the paint booth at exactly the right temp. range and see what happens. Any other thoughts?

The guy at the paint store did mentioned one other thing that was mentioned here in a previous post. He said that many people use a blended colored primer and/or sealer b-4 shooting yellows and reds. He agreed that those are hard to get to cover. I'm just hoping that getting the right temp will help with both the orange peel and covering issues. I have been painting between 50-60 degrees. Maybe a little too cold.

Panhead59, here is a simple formula to remember when spraying, Orange peel is a factor of fluid adjustment,and run control is an air pressure adjustment, so I would bet, you have TOO much paint coming out trying to cover with a light color, and it cant atomize properly, and goes on in too large a drop, which equals Orange peel.
Here is a link to a site that explains the perfect paint job...and how to set up your gun.
http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/adjusting%20your%20gun.htm

Thanks- looks like a very good site. Supposed to be warm here- Roanoke, Va.- this weekend so temps won't be a problem. I'll be tryin again!!

OK I'm really getting tierd of this. Look, I can't even spell anymore!!!! Sanded cab again with 220 then 400, just to get rid of orange peel and start "fresh". Meaning- slick. Adjusted gun according to web site on previous post. Good info by the way!!! I was way to rich on the paint adjustment- meaning too much paint. So I have the right air pressure, the right temp for the mixture- in the low 60's today, and the gun is adjusted as low as it can go with getting enough paint out and fairly smooth. That's the problem. Fairly smooth is not getting it. It still looks like it has sand in the paint. So u say- too dry. OK i UPPED THE AIR AND IT HELPED A LITTLE but not enough. Slowed down also and helped a little but not enough. any more air or slower and it's goona run. It's just not itomized enough. So to h$%^ with this cheap paint gun stuff!!! What are the best guns for the money out there? The difference in welding really good, or fighting it all the time, was the quality of the welder, and I'm reading that is the case with painting also. You've got to read the paint just like u read the weld. If the equipment can't or has a very hard time adjusting, then the heck with it. I'll pay the money for good tools!!!! Maybe I am expecting pro results with amature equipment. So that's the next step. A good gun. Any suggestions. And yes I'll use it again. I'll probably paint a couple cars/trucks a year. Doesn't matter. Money is only an object just like anything else.

Oh yeah, it did COVER better. Not great, but better. approx. 10 coats of paint- yellow over gray primer- and it is just now covering in some spots.

Wow, 10 coats to just start covering? What brand of paint? And your 100% correct about the quality of the tools. I have4 diff guns, some better than others. My Sata 400 is my best gun, then I have a DeVilbis Plus gun. Really good also, and about 1/2 of the Sata. But about 4 years ago, I switched over to a 4 turbine system, that produces air for spraying, and air for breathing . I got tired of water in my compressor, compressor maintainence, it really required an 80 gal 2 stage compressor to run m shop. I will post a link to my turbin system, I use it mainly for base coats and single stages, or clears. I still use the compressor for primers. As for welding, I had a cheapo wire welder, it never gave me results I wanted, then I splurged for a Lincoln Mig with Argon gas, man what a welder, I was able to finally weld and it looked good, and my welds lasted.
Same with paint guns, I have used sharp, and several off brands, but 15 years ago, registered for a night class at a trade school, and when I saw what was possible with the right equipment, it became apparent, if I really wanted to paint, I had to get quality equipment. Good luck, and check out this link for the turbine system
http://www.axispro.com/index.php?categoryID=4

Been following this thread since first posted. Orange peel is a common problem and was
wondering what the common consensus would be.

First thing that hits me is that your not using DuPont reducer or hardener. If it were me I
wouldn’t listen to the guy at the counter I’d insist on what the spec sheet called out.
Second thing that seems to stand out is the paint coverage, I don’t care what color your
using, if you’re laying down the proper film thickness on each pass of premium
automotive paint it should cover completely in 2 to 4 coats. The only problems I’ve had
with coverage is when I’ve used the watered down versions like Omni. It is not unheard
of for an unscrupulous paint dealer to water down the better paints with cheaper clears so
they can sell more paint.

Here‘s a grill that I just finished up a month or two ago using a $15 Harbor Freight
gravity feed HVLP spray gun , a 40 year old Sears 3hp 30 gallon 7.4cfm utility
compressor and shot outside at 50-60°. Both the blue and white paints are PPG Delstar
acrylic enamel, which is comparable to DuPont Centari. I used PPG DTR601 reducer and
DXR80 hardener as called out on the spec sheet for the Delstar system. As you can see in
the original size frames there is no orange peel. Click next or previous for a couple other
views. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/138235326/large

I run about 35-40 psi at the compressor regulator with 50 ft of 3/8” hose and adjust
my pattern first to get my oval shape at about 8”, then adjust the mixture so it is wet but
not running at a moderate gun movement. Using the proper materials and mix ratios
-Fan adj-Mixture adj and speed are the only factors that are that are needed to give you
a “good enough” paint job.
No argument that oil free high volume screw compressors and Anest-Iwata or Sata spray
guns are nice to have if your shooting paint for a living but my personal opinion is that
they aren’t really necessary to apply the average single stage enamel paint job.

All the fancy equipment in the world isn’t going to make a Nubby out of you any more
than a $3,500 Custom Fender Stratocaster will allow the average guitar picker to play like
Eric Clapton.


Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Well- First off I want to say thanks to everyone who has chimed in with opinions and facts. All are certainly welcome and greatly appreciated. Even though i have painted before, only with base coat/clear coat polyurathane, I have still learned a lot so far with this project. I failed again this weekend to lay it down smooth. I did get to eliminate the temp question as it was 62 degrees in the shade when I painted, and I was mostly in the sun. Didn't matter either, sun or shade, it just isn't going on smooth enough. I adjusted the gun several times but to no avail. So I'm just gonna slow down and bring the project inside. I will practice on small pieces until I solve this delema. I can tell u one thing. Someone is going to get a very nice deal on a 52 3100 in the spring!!! The plan is to finish this up with new running boards, tires, electric wiper motor and some small stuff and sell it. It is way too original to hot rod which is what I really want. A buddy of mine has a 57 that he will sell me and it is already half way there as fAR AS HOT RODDING. I have to be thankful that this body was/is in very very good cond. to start with so body work has been minimal. Thanks again for all the help. The next time u see "orange peel in acrylic enamel" it will be to state how good it turned out and what I finally found to be the winning solution!!!