The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Floor Shifter Blues

This is my first post, I have been lurking for a few weeks. Well ever since I got my 54 3100 anyway. Great place and I have already learned a great deal about the process of living with and rebuilding an old truck. Thanks for all the help you don't know you have given me.
Now to my problem.
The truck has a 4 speed (Saginaw I think, but no granny gear) that was put in some time ago by PO that uses a floor shifter, this replaced the original 3 speed unfortunately. The problem is that when shifting from 2 to 3, if you do not move in a very precise H pattern, for instance if you try to cut the corner while moving up, the tranny gets stuck in 2. You can easily get it out by tapping the lever on the transmission into neutral.
Not knowing much about shifters (and this is an aftermarket of some type side bolted to the transmission) I am wondering if there are adjustments that can be made in the shifter or where might I start. The throw on the shifter is really sloppy so is this just a crap shifter or a crap install?
Thanks

They can be o-hauled & tightened up but i f it,s a cheapy I would get a new Hurst or B&M. A world of difference.

DWSC_BOB,

Welcome to the Stovebolt. I have a procedure that I have mentioned several times here for adjusting the linkage. No one has told me I'm all wet, so some of it must be helpful.

Hopefully your conversion kit has nylon bushings in the arms. The first thing to do would be to replace as many of these as you can as this will tighten up the action. Sometimes you can tighten the pivot bolt a touch too. This is a big old dude that all the shift arms rotate around.

Put the transmission in neutral and remove all but one shift rod. Do this at the easiest end...shifter or side cover. The drill now is to pull the shifter back and forth through the neutral gate while you adjust the threaded shift rods and reinstall one at a time so the neutral gate stays smooth and clear. Some kits have a small hole drilled through all the arms and the bracket...if all the components are lined up and a small drill or wire is inserted, the neutral gate is perfect and the shift arms on the side cover can be matched to shifter arms themselves by adjusting the threaded rods.

The whole idea here is that the detents in the side cover, which should be strong and snappy, determine where the 'dumb' arms on the conversion kit locate. With the transmission in neutral, the shifter set so the 'H' or neutral gate is smooth, the threaded rods should fall right into the nylon bushed holes in the arms.

Does this novel make any sense to you...I sure don't want to scare you off after your first post.

Stuart

So what I am understanding here is that the shift gate is determined by the detents in the transmission and not by the shifter? If that si the case then good news is that the tranny seems tight when I shift it by hand using the paddles (levers) mounted on the side of the transmission. The slop seems to be in the shifter itself then.

When moving through the neutral gate I would be moving left and right, is that correct?

The problem may be in the pivot bolt, there is a bolt that sticks out of the top/rear of the shifter I assume that is an adjustment point?

The arms do seem very sloppy where they connect to the shift levers on the case so I will look in to the busing thing as well.
It is not all clear yet but may get better when i can run through it looking at the shifter.

Thanks

DWSC_BOB,


Yes...moving through the gate is left to right. You should have to pull to the left but it should spring back to the right (I think). The bolt you mention might be a limit bolt so you don't try to twist the arms of the side cover in the middle of a stoplight to stoplight drag race.

If you understand that the shifter mechanism is just a 'dumb actuator' and the sidecover has all the brains, then you are on your way to success.


Stuart

All this talk brings up a good point for those of us who have this conversion...if the unit is shot what would be the best unit to purchase? Not the cheapest but the unit that you experienced guys would purchase. That information would be of great help to us all who have these older conversion. THANKS, Steve

Steve,

As far as I'm concerned, Hurst has been doing it the longest. I think Hurst is part of Mr. Gasket now, and I will wager that Mr. Gasket is probably owned by the Yuk Fu Corp. This means that your new shifter will have metric fasteners and will come with unintelligible installation instructions. Good luck.

Stuart

Atomarc.....would you have a number for the Hurst shifter....I ask, as with my luck I will pick the wrong one! THANKS, Steve

Hello Bob and all others. I am in the process of the same conversion, and I have purchased the Hurst Indy Universal shifter, with the short handle, Part #503-0033. It came with very clear and user friendly instructions. I also ordered the boot kit, # 053-0114-7494. Yes, Hurst is now part of Mr. Gasket... but I have not found typical "buy out" symptoms to exist. I ordered my stuff through Jeg's. One of the nicest things about this shifter... If you run into seat clearance issues, the plate that attaches the shift mechanicals to the shift "stick" is very easily modified or replaced to suit any clearance needs you may encounter. (seats, concoles, etc.) You can put angles, curves, extensions, etc... and not affect the shift action in negative ways. Atomarc has very sound techniques on adjustments, the new shifter also has instructions. I hope this helps. By the way, what do you have for rear trans support? I am replacing stock 3 spd w/Saginaw 4. I have the catalogs out now and am thinking of crossmember needs. Any suggestions? Grant.

I have been looking at it and there is no additional support for the transmission that has been supplied and I have been wondering about that......

Also, found this on the Hurst web site tech help page (www.hurst-shifters.com).

What is the proper way to adjust my Hurst four speed shifter?


There is a 1/4 inch hole at the bottom of the Hurst mechanism that runs through all three levers. This is called the neutral alignment hole. To ensure proper adjustment, run the shifter from first into second and then back to neutral. Insert the neutral alignment pin (or a 1/4 inch drill bit) into the neutral alignment hole. If the 1-2 lever interferes with the smooth insertion of the alignment pin, remove the 1-2 linkage rod from the shifter and thread the adjuster button either in or out to eliminate the interference. Repeat this procedure with the 3-4 lever and reverse. To adjust the stop bolts, back the bolts out of the shifter frame until only a few threads remain. Push the stick firmly into third gear and hold. Screw in the stop bolt until contact is made. Release the stick and back the stop bolt out one turn and tighten the jamnut. Push the stick into fourth gear and repeat the procedure.

Hello all! Bob, if you are leaving the original bell housing in place, my opinion says that you should add some sort of support for the trans. The stock trans is not nearly as tail heavy as the car type 4 spd. The original trans is supported at the bellhousing, which also is the rear motor mount. Things are going to get pretty heavy back there. The trans crossmember that I just ordered from Classic is only $55. It appears very easy to do a bolt in installation, and basically replaces the newer stock style rear trans mounts, such as would be found on 70's style autos. You'll want to inspect your rear trans pad/insulator. They are cheap too. Hope this helps... Grant.

No need for any extra crossmembers, any passenger car 4 speed will be much lighter than the option 4 speed that these trucks came with. The SM420, the granny gear 4 speed, weighs MUCH more than any passenger trans, it used no rear support at all. The real trick is to be sure that the trans is propely aligned in the index bore of the bellhousing and that the mounting bolts are tight. For the shifter, I'd suggest that you take a look at the 4 speed shifter from Patrick's. It's made to properly fit these trucks without butchering the seat. I think that they are made for them by Hurst, but I'm not sure about that.

Used to could shifter hand levers of different lengths and shapes from Hurst. Last time I replaced a column shifter with a floor shifter, I got a different lever to clear the seat.

It does eem like a lot of stuff hanging out and as you seggest, the add-on is very inexpensive. I think I will just move it too a lower priority as it has been this way fro a couple of years prior to me owning the truck. I do have other repairs in the front end that are more critical right now, but this will be on the list.

I will check at Patricks as had not looked there yet. The shifter is a Hurst but they welded a flat peice on the bottem of the shifter to extend the length and laso heated to add a bend so it looks pretty shabby. I appreciate the info on the weight issue and will move this item to a later repair phase but think I will for my own sanity add the support in the future. Thanks