The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk starter pinion gear removal/replacement

The pinion gear on the Blue Funk's 6 volt starter appears to be worn.

How do I get the pinion gear off? Is it difficult finding a replacement, i.e. does NAPA have the part? Or some classic parts supplier?

Thanks.

Edit: Okay- I've got the pinion gear out. I see that it comes out as a unit with the starter drive shaft. I now just have to get information on replacement.

I was unable to get one at NAPA. They told me they could only get the whole starter. Carquest could only get one that was not the correct one. The gear looked identical but with the two side by side you could see that the gear diameter was a little smaller. Also the spline was incorrect. I bought mine on Ebay but I think Jim carter sells them.

Thanks for the reply, truckernix.

NAPA showed me a pic of a starter driveshaft/pinion that looked like mine. However, they didn't get back to me on whether it was for a 6 or a 12 volt. I believe I read in one of Hotrod Lincoln's past posts that 6 and 12 volt pinion gears are not interchangeable.

I looked for it at Jim Carter and found nothing. Online, Rock Auto lists part #1932188 at $17.80, while Tim Taggart lists the same number at $40.25!

However, the 6 or 12 volt was not specified. I think I'll give 'em a call during regular business hours and get more info.

To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure that the pinion gear is the culprit for the hesitation before turning over. After seeing a pic, it doesn't really "appear" that the pinion teeth are worn.

I cleaned everything up and put the starter back in. Although I've only fired up the Blue Funk a couple of times, the hesitation seems shorter in duration. I don't know.

I guess I'll just keep on playing withit. Any advice, info, or guidance will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Mine was actually grinding the ring gear and it made a horrible noise when doing so. Have you looked at your switch. It is just held on with two screws. Sometimes the contacts get a bit burned.

Thanks for thr reply's Fred, Denny.

I've cleaned and tightened the contacts.

Basically, what's happening, I believe, is that the starter is running without the pinion gear engaging the flywheel. And this situation occurs sporadically. Sometimes it's several seconds after the starter motor is running that it'll finally engage and turn the engine over. Other times, the engine turns over right off of the bat after depressing the foot pedal.

Like I said in my last post, I'm not sure what's causing this situation- the spring seems strong and the teeth on the pinion gear don't seem to be worn.

I really appreciate you looking up and conveying that information to me, Denny!

Thanks again.

Edit: My concern is that the Blue Funk's engine is out of a '57 car with hydroglide. That'd make a difference in the starter type too, wouldn't it?

Ok, so the starter is actually spinning while the flywheel is not turning. You have not mentioned any grinding sound so the only possible way that I think this could happen would be a faulty one way clutch inside the drive that you were looking at. I didn't realize that the starter was actually turning. I would put a new drive on it.

A new drive sounds like a plan, Fred- thanks. It must be the clutch, since the gear and the spring seem to be okay.

Now, I just wanna be sure I get the right assembly. There seems to be a lot of variables involved in obtaining the correct part. From what Denny wrote, it appears that Jim Carter may have what I need. I'm wondering if it makes a difference, the engine being out of a car.

The one that I ended up with looks just like the original. The ones thast CarQuest got in for me did not have the same spine arrangement. The inside of the hole was smooth except for three small ridges. One of them had the ridges on a slant. Also, the drive gear was slightly smaller in diameter which I would guess would give a different pitch, probably for the 12 volt starter.

The main difference in the 6 volt and 12 volt starter armature is the diameter. I believe the 6V is bigger, so the 12V starter drive won't fit at all. You mention that the engine is from a 12 volt car with an automatic trans.- - - - -if you've still got the stomp start, I'll bet somebody re-used the 6 volt flywheel, starter, and bellhousing. If you've got a key start, it could have either 6 or 12 volt, as the pre-1955 powerglide cars had key start 6 volt setups.
Jerry

The Blue Funk has a 6 volt starter with a foot pedal.

The engine the car came from could have well been an automatic with a 6 volt system as well, couldn't it?

My concern is the difference between a car starter vs a truck starter, if any. Or are 6 volt starters the same whether they be on a car or a truck?

I am not the expert here but I believe that a six volt from something like 1937 to 1954 will do, car or truck. Now if it is a key start I know nothing about converting it.

Car starters have a magnetic solenoid to engage the drive, not a foot pedal. I believe either one will bolt to the bellhousing with the same bolt pattern, two 1/2X20 threaded studs with nuts and lockwashers. The only stomp-start 12 volt units will be found on 55 2nd. series and up 6-cylinder trucks, don't remember how long those were used. The stomp linkage engages the pinion gear into the flywheel somewhat before the switch starts the motor turning, so there would have to be a LOT of wear or wrong adjustment to get the motor turning before the gear got engaged. If it's starting occasionally without grinding, you're almost certain to have a slippy one-way clutch in the starter drive. Get a drive unit for a 53 or earlier truck starter, and I'll bet it fits just right.
Jerry

Watta coincidence. My COE starter drive crapped out this AM. At least it was in my driveway. (key, not stomp actuated)
Pulled the flywheel pan expecting to see the ring gear teeth laying in it. Instead I had half the pinion gear. The other half was in the starter nose.
The ring gear teeth looks dinged up but usable. And the starters back to the rebuilders for a new pinion drive as he rebuilt it last fall.
Any thoughts as to why it would split the pinion in half? Flywheel seems bolted tight to the crank. And crankshafts end play w .010 end play within spec.
Scratchin my *** on this one.

PS: 1955 248 engine in a 1949 FF 353 COE GMC

PPS: Truck is converted to 12 V negative ground, alternator charged

Okay then Fred, Jerry. I contacted Jim Carter with Denny's ordering information and there seems to be a three way consensus here- the starter drive should work. I'll recieve it this week and letcha know the outcome. Thanks Guys.

Good luck in your endeavor, John.

Well, sure enough, it was the overrunning clutch that was the problem. I put the new starter drive in, and the Blue Funk turns over every time! No more hesitation.

An interesting observation was made: I compared the old and new drives, and they were exactly the same except for one thing- the old drive had six splines whereas the new old has three "bumps". Of course it fits and does the job, but somehow I believe that those three bumps will wear out faster than the six splines ever would.

I want to thank you all for your assistance in this matter.

I just picked up a replacement starter drive and it only has the 3 bumps where the old one had 6 nicely milled slots..is this a standard replacement part? Granted it was only $11.

It seems to fit perfectly, just three mounting points on the spline vs 6 on the old one.

Any problems so far Davey?

Wow, mapleleaf- great price! Mine was $25 plus S&H. I'd like to know if this a standard replacement part, also. Maybe someone with the knowledge will chime in.

I've had no problems. Turns right over like it should! Thanks for askin'.

I had one like that from CarQuest. When I compared the gears face to face, the new one was smaller in diameter than the old one with the milled slots. This would make the pitch slightly different and I am guessing it would fit the teeth on a 12 volt starter flywheel. I sent mine back and got an original type from Ebay.

Teeth were exactly the same on this one (this is a 12v starter), just inner spline pattern was different. I called Bill as well at Bill's Truck shop and he ok'd it. It fit on the shaft perfectly and no play. This is a Canadian rebuild from Wilson.

Maybe the older stuff was over built LOL - but then again it lasted 50 years.

I put it on last night and it works perfect - no more slipping. I kept the old one - core charge is $1, I'll keep it for that.

I guess that must be easier to fabricate than making one like the original. I have seen them on Ebay with three ridges and with six.

Well..it seems to work fine. I may pick up another one along the way that is original if the price is right.

What a difference in starting tho. The old girl cranks good now. It is not a hard fix.