The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop What engine is this?

Hoping for an engine identification lesson from the AD gurus here. Take a look at this photo. Can you identify the motor just from the look, and if so can you tell me what recognizable characteristics give away the identity? Not sure if it's original in the Chevy truck in which the motor resides currently - I'll tell you the year and size of the truck after a few have weighed in on the motor ID.

i realize that i could just look at the casting numbers. i'm just wondering if there are other ways to know the era of this motor from what's shown in the photo.

its a 216

Its 1953 or earlier by looking at the valve cover being held down by the 2 nuts on the top.

need the block #

You'd need the block casting codes (or engine serial number)
to determine if it is a 235 or a 216 (and to determine the date of the block).

edub10068, how can you tell it's a 216 and not a 235?

don stocker, were all valve covers on pre-1953 heads (both 216 and 235) held down by bolts like this? if so, do the nuts "give away" a babbit motor?

as i said, i realize that the easy way to do this identification is to look up the head and block casting numbers, i'm just curious about what can be known about an AD six like this just from looking under the hood.

It's not possible to get an accurate ID on this motor without the casting codes and the engine number that is stamped on the pad just aft of the distributor. The early 216's and 235's had the 2-bolt valve cover as did the '53 full pressure engines and any later 235 could have been retro-fitted with the 2-bolt cover.

Where's 'da numbers?

On a 216 there is a tin lifter cover that goes all the way up to the valve cover, There are holes in it for the spark plugs. In a 235 the lifter cover just covers the lifters. The spark plug side of the head is not covered with a tin piece.

they're on the block and on the head!

So considering the nuts on the top of the valve cover and the tin lifter cover that doesn't cover the spark plugs, this is probably an early 235?

The numbers are the decider. The 216 and 235 from 1940-1949 look exactly the same until opened see this quote from the Big Truck links:
For '47-'53 AD trucks, though, the medium trucks got the bigger 235 developed during the war. But this engine is NOT THE SAME as the later 235 that came out in '54. Oh no, this engine is not as long (That's why the radiator shroud sheet metal has been cut on trucks with a newer engine installed) and is babbitted. Oh joy!

The good news for an owner of the average medium-duty AD truck, however, is that his original engine probably died an ugly death during the Eisenhower administration and was replaced by a full-pressure oiled 235 (The one in my truck is from a '57 Corvette, believe it or not). Or, once the babbitted 235's came out (they also made better power), bigger truck owners wisely took out their babbitted 235's and used them for a better purpose -- boat anchors.

For the restorer wanting complete originality, my hat is off to them and I wish them bon chance in even finding one of those babbitted 235s, let alone finding someone to rebuild it. Finding mechanicals for that engine will be a quest worthy of an Arthurian Legend in itself. If strict originality is not important, the later 235s can be modified to look and fit like the earlier ones. Several parts vendors sell the kits to make the newer 235's and 261's look like the 216's that go into the light trucks, and that will do nicely for this application, too. How do you tell them apart? The older 235's look a lot like the later ones, except they have 216 visual cues (You might want to ask Barry Weeks for corroboration on this) like the Valve cover with acorn nuts, instead of fastening at the flanges like the later ones do. Also, I don't think the push rod cover surrounds the spark plugs. I've never seen one of these motors, so I can't tell you for sure.

The one in my truck is from a '57 Corvette

That would be one of none made.

Hmmm. OK, good info there - thanks Brad.

From what I can see of your photo, the lifter cover or side cover extends to the spark plugs. You can see at least one of the screws holding it on. This style was typical of a 216 up until around 53. The 235 looked pretty well identical until 1950. The motor would be a low pressure motor that is being referred to as a "babbitt" motor.

OK I think I see that, thanks!

Here is the link to the quote, as far as the 57 reference I think most of us know that only applies to 53-55 Corvettes. I didn't write the article.

http://www.stovebolt.com/features/feature_stories/bigtrucks/index.htm

Brad,

I didn't see the quotation marks but I quickly realized that information was not from you after reading that Big Truck Story.

"For '47-'53 AD trucks, though, the medium trucks got the bigger 235 developed during the war."

"medium duty" trucks (to be accurate) in the 1 1/2 to 2-ton range
to be accurate, 3600-3900 were medium duty in Chevrolet terminology.
1.5 and 2-ton trucks were called heavy duty.

"'47-'53 . . . medium trucks got the bigger 235"?
3800 and larger, maybe (not 3600, which was called medium duty).

235 "developed during the war"?
1941? Not unless the story is referring to the war in Europe and GM anticipating Pearl Harbor at the end of that year?

"The good news for an owner of the average medium-duty AD truck, however, is that his original engine probably died an ugly death during the Eisenhower administration and was replaced by a full-pressure oiled 235 (The one in my truck is from a '57 Corvette, believe it or not)"

I worked on many old farm trucks in the late 60s (well after Eisenhower) that still had working and easily/cheaply rebuildable 216 engines in them.

The 57 Corvette statement caused me to stop reading, believe it or not.

Isn't another indicator its an earlier engine is the coil centered with 3 plugs on the left and three on the right? Later (at least on my '53 235) the coil is not centered but has 2 plugs on the left and 4 on the right.

earlier engine I I I coil I I I

later engines I I coil I I I I

I = plug

My money is on a 216 truck engine... but hey, I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. Probably before the sun sets today.

Big Tee,

Wouldn't an earlier 235 (pre-1953, or certainly pre-1950) have the coil mounted on the head in a similar location as on the 216?

If this is a 1/2, 3/4, or one ton truck, and it is the original engine to the truck it is a 216.
The problem is a 1941-49 big truck 235 looks exactly the same from the outside as a 216, and this engine could have been installed at some time.
The stamping next to the distributor is the easiest way to tell.

Some Factory Reference Photos: Coil change must have been made in 1952? Order of photos: 1950 Truck, 1952 Truck, 1956 Truck, 1959 Truck, and a 1952 Car which shows rear placement?
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2148978800102454676PBnWGt
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2547163690102454676JKFTVk
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2910132760102454676BoGjBy
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2602886570102454676VDAfDO
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2532273340102454676aKumxN

here is a link to Patricks antiques. Go to the online book and look at the last pages. They tell you how to identify what engine you have by looking at the block and pump.

http://www.patricksantiquecars.com/chevy_parts.html

It has a 49 and newer valve cover and road draft tube on the motor,I think after 48 the oil fill cap went on the valve cover and off the road draft tube. If its a 49 to 53 its probably the original motor.

Here is a LINK to a pic of a 1952 235 and the coil is in the center.
So to recap:
216s up to 1953 and 235 up to 1952 have the coil in the center.
1953-62 235s are offset to the rear.