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In the rebuild process of my '51 3100 I am now rewiring it. I will be adding turnsignals that require a 12 volt source, they are the ones that the switch is down on the bottom edge of the dash,somewhat out of sight.I also added electric wipers that need 12 volt. And, I am reinstalling an aftermarket heater that was in the truck when I got it that has a 12 fan. All of these I would like to power up with Key on only.What is the best way to do this? Thanks. smile

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Cruising in the Passing Lane
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except for the turn sig, which should be functional regardless if the key is on [can get power from the hot wire on the light sw], I'd want the ACC position on the key switch to power a fuse panel to feed the accessories

Bill


Moved over to the Passing Lane

"When we tug a single thing in nature we find it attached to the rest of the world" John Muir
"When we tug a single thing on an old truck, we find it falls off" me
Some TF series details & TF heater pics & Rust-a-holics Unanimous parking lot
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Be careful about running several accessory items through the ignition switch, as the contacts inside the switch can overload and burn. I like to install a small auxiliary fuse block somewhere out of sight, and power it with a continuous-duty relay like the square Bosch type that's used for electric cooling fans, driving lights, etc. A heavy wire back to the battery cable connection at the starter, of maybe one from the ammeter can provide power to the relay contacts. The only load on the ignition switch that way is a very small current draw to power the relay coil. The voltage gets switched on and off by the ignition switch, but the relay carries the load of the accessories. We wired cab and clearance lights on big rigs that way to take the load off the light switch.
Jerry



"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
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Jerry

Is this the type of relay your talking about ..click..? 75amp

I just hooked up turn signals a couple of weeks ago
Just like 1951 Elmer I also hooked up a 12v heater, 12v newport wipers.
My ignition is an original.

I ran a aux fuse block but grabed power off the ignition.
...fuse pic...(looks messy but cleaned up now). I can change it over and wire as you describe.


1951 Elmer
My turn signal lever clamped to the steering colum. I could not get to blinker light on the lever to come on. Then realized it had to be grounded for the light to come on. I had to clean off some paint. ...pic..

Thank you

Last edited by DADS50; 02/01/2011 7:30 PM.
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That's a good relay, but it's a bit over-capacity for the loads you describe. Nothing wrong with a little overkill, other than maybe dipping into your pocket a little more than necessary. I'd reccomend something in the 30-50 amp range unless you're planning some high current draw upgrades like a big sound system amp or something similar later.
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
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Originally Posted by Hotrod Lincoln
Be careful about running several accessory items through the ignition switch, as the contacts inside the switch can overload and burn. I like to install a small auxiliary fuse block somewhere out of sight, and power it with a continuous-duty relay like the square Bosch type that's used for electric cooling fans, driving lights, etc. A heavy wire back to the battery cable connection at the starter, of maybe one from the ammeter can provide power to the relay contacts. The only load on the ignition switch that way is a very small current draw to power the relay coil. The voltage gets switched on and off by the ignition switch, but the relay carries the load of the accessories. We wired cab and clearance lights on big rigs that way to take the load off the light switch.
Jerry
I wonder if you could draw me a oneline diagram showing wire size,etc? And also the exact relay and where I could buy one. Do I understand you correctly, a smaller wire from the ignition toopen or close the relay and a larger wire to power it up? I think I found a small fuse box from Cabelas that is used on boats. Thanks

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Originally Posted by DADS50
Jerry

Is this the type of relay your talking about ..click..? 75amp

I just hooked up turn signals a couple of weeks ago
Just like 1951 Elmer I also hooked up a 12v heater, 12v newport wipers.
My ignition is an original.

I ran a aux fuse block but grabed power off the ignition.
...fuse pic...(looks messy but cleaned up now). I can change it over and wire as you describe.


1951 Elmer
My turn signal lever clamped to the steering colum. I could not get to blinker light on the lever to come on. Then realized it had to be grounded for the light to come on. I had to clean off some paint. ...pic..

Thank you
Hey Dads50; Thanks for reply. The signal unit I am using has a dedicated ground wire with it. I think the unit was bought from Jim Carter, Thanks

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Elmer,

Here is the factory solution NOS to boot!
eBay #390278023377

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Originally Posted by Brad Allen
Elmer,

Here is the factory solution NOS to boot!
eBay #390278023377
Thanks Brad; I've now put that item on my watch list on Ebay and will keep an eye on it for a few days while I wait for a reply from Hotrod Lincoln and others. Thankyou smile

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New Guy
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For all of you looking for relay information head over to Daniel Stern Lighting. It is packed full of info on installation, wire sizing, circut design and many other topics.

You can purchase good Tyco/Potter & Brumfield relays for under $10 each at newark.com.


Ted

My ride but looking for a Deco Bolt for the wife.
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Cole Hersee also makes good relays and switches terminal board fuse boards for automotive.

Dan Bentler

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Elmer,

I bought one so let me know if you want a copy of the instructions and some pictures of the assembly.

Brad

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Extreme Gabster
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Originally Posted by Brad Allen
Elmer,

I bought one so let me know if you want a copy of the instructions and some pictures of the assembly.

Brad

I bought one too. Thanks for the tip. I already have tach, wipers and heater coming off my ignition switch and I'm fixing to install an electric fuel pump. I intend to give each it's own circuit now, fed off the ammeter lead and operated by a relay.

edit: I received mine and it is not what I thought. According to the MPB, Group 2.483, P/N 986630 is a BLOCK, (8 fuse terminals)(4 non-fuse terminals) This part has 2 non-fused terminals and is useless for what I wanted it for.

Last edited by cletis; 02/10/2011 8:14 PM. Reason: added info

"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
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Here's one way to wire the Bosch-type relays. The wire numbers on almost all of them are the same.
Jerry

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/relay_schematic_001.jpg


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
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Originally Posted by Hotrod Lincoln
Here's one way to wire the Bosch-type relays. The wire numbers on almost all of them are the same.
Jerry

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/relay_schematic_001.jpg
Jerry; Thanks a million for your help on this,your info along with the help of all the others will allow me to go ahead and do it right the first time. Thanks again.

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Extreme Gabster
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Originally Posted by Brad Allen
Elmer,

Here is the factory solution NOS to boot!
eBay #390278023377

According to the MPB, Group 2.483, P/N 986630 is a BLOCK, (8 fuse terminals)(4 non-fuse terminals) This part has 2 non-fused terminals and is useless for what I wanted it for.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
Extreme Gabster
Extreme Gabster
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I found this at NAPA.
782-5316

It will suit my needs just fine.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 91
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Originally Posted by cletis
I found this at NAPA.
782-5316

It will suit my needs just fine.
Hey Cletis; That link didn't work!

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Extreme Gabster
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Hey, you're right. It takes me to the napa home page. But if you put the number in the search box and play their game you can find a picture of it.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
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1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
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Originally Posted by DADS50
I ran a aux fuse block but grabed power off the ignition.
...fuse pic...(looks messy but cleaned up now). I can change it over and wire as you describe.

That Napa block is the same one Im have.
Didnt know Napa carried them.

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Extreme Gabster
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It sure looks like it, Dad. What is the number on that relay you're using? I bought a cube one and can't find the amps rating on it. I like yours better.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
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1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
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Originally Posted by cletis
It sure looks like it, Dad. What is the number on that relay you're using? I bought a cube one and can't find the amps rating on it. I like yours better.

I pick up that Horn relay at Orielly auto.
The numbers stamped on it are
JD114C7-12V
Didnt save the box, might be BWD Brand

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Extreme Gabster
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Thanks.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
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Most horn relays overheat and start to cycle on and off after a few minutes of continuous operation. How long have you had that one in service? I used to try to run 18-wheeler clearance lights on horn relays, and never got one to last more than 15 minutes or so. You need a continuous-duty relay for that application.
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
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Originally Posted by Hotrod Lincoln
How long have you had that one in service?

That is my horn relay any only operates the horn.
In that pic the power going to the fuse box is coming off the ignition (Green wire on top of fuse box).

My next step is to rewire as you earlier described. #10 off battery to a continuous-duty relay. #10 from relay to the fuse box. Terminal from relay back to ignition. I hope I described that right. (correction will be welcomed)

Thanks

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OK, that sounds good. We had some problems with horn relays in unconventional applications some time ago, so I thought I'd bring up my experiences in case you were going to try to use one in a constant-on situation. No problem with a momentary-on application like a horn. If you happen to have a really heavy-current situation like charging an auxiliary battery, there's a continuous-duty version of the round solenoid switch available like a Ford starter uses. We use one of them on our motorhome to disconnect the coach batteries from the starting battery system when the engine is not running. This system prevents discharging the starting battery during several days in a campground, running interior lights, etc. off the coach batteries.
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
Extreme Gabster
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I guess I'd best stick with the cube relay.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 91
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Just wanted to let youall know that Cabelas offers a pretty nice fuse block, both 6 and 10 fuse size. The item # is IK-011915. Thanks for all your help on this issue. Elmer smile

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1951 Elmer

Is this the one you ordered?..

Are those non fuseable l1nks in the front?
The discription is not clear

Thanks

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Originally Posted by DADS50
1951 Elmer

Is this the one you ordered?..

Are those non fuseable l1nks in the front?
The discription is not clear

Thanks
Yeh, that's it. The ones in front are for your grounds.

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Elmer,

The original you bought is fused with these all the spots on the board is where one of these attaches that is how they are protected fuses stick out horizontally from the board. This is Denny Graham's stuff that he reproduced.


Just thought someone might be interested in what the original fuse holders that are pictured in the radio installation manuals looked like. Made up drawings from an original someone was kind enough to loan me. Takes a day to make one but I think it would be hard to tell them from the original one that was in the kit. These take the AGC or SFE 14.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/132578212/large
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/132578236/large
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Last edited by Brad Allen; 02/17/2011 5:12 AM.

Moderated by  Jon G, Rusty Rod 

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