The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Adjusted Valves Now Won't Start

I noticed that four of my plugs were sooty so I tried to adjust the valves on my 62, 235, six with solid lifters. I have done it before without much fanfare but now it won't start. I tried the trick (in quotes) below but it still won't start. Any suggestions?

What is the cold engine adjustment setting? Somebody told me long ago to set them at .010 intake and .012 exhaust.

Can I adjust them by turning the motor over and waiting till one valve on one cylinder opens fully then adjust the other?

------------------------

"Turn the crank (by hand) until #2 cylinder intake valve (look above- it is the third rocker back from front) is observed to start opening (that means the rocker is pushing the valve down and open). Now turn the engine slowly and notice that #1 cylinder exhaust (first rocker)valve will also start to open. Continue cranking until #2 cylinder's intake valve is wide open, AND then notice that #1 exhaust valve is also coming to the wide open position. (#1 exhaust valve lags a little behind #2 intake valve) Continue turning (slowly) until both valves are wide open.

With these two valves wide open adjust: Solids: intake-.006. exhaust-..013. Adjust: #1 cylinder intake #2 " exhaust #3 " both #5 " intake #6 " exhaust.

Now turn the crankshaft one full turn until #5 cylinder intake is observed to start open. Lagging behind will be #6 cylinder exhaust. Continue turning the crank until both of these valves are wide open and then adjust: #1 cylinder exhaust #2 " intake #4 " both #5 " exhaust #6 " intake.

Your engine will now be ready to start. Let it idle for 30 minutes till completely warm and do the final adjustment."

Yes, turning the motor over and adjusting the valve, next to the one that is open all the way, on each cylinder, works fine. .006 and .0013 sounds right to me, but check the book to be sure. It sounds like you have some valves too tight if it won't crank. The black color on the plugs didn't come from valve adjustment, try carb. flooding or excessive oil burning.

I wish I had a book to check. Everybody I talk to tells me something different.

The 1960 truck shop manual calls for .006 intake, .016 exhaust.

.006 intake and .016 exhaust on a COLD motor?

Do you know if the specs are the same for a 62?

On a cold motor you need to set the valves even a little looser. If you set them at 10 and 12 cold they might be too tight.

Certainly there has to be a cold valve setting for this motor. Does anybody know what it is?

Yes, a couple of thousands looser than your stock setup. I went like .008 and .018 or something like that. It is not rocket science. But yours sounds tight.

Then warm the engine for 30 minutes and check them all again. Loose is good, tight is bad. Basically you want to have little noise. You can find the best lash for your engine by experimenting a little.

Just out of curiosity, why did you think valve clearance was causing sooty plugs? I associate sooty plugs with a rich fuel/air mixture. If you think the valves are out of adjustment to the point that the engine won't start, then a compression check should verify this. Sounds like there is something else going on.

The truck was running fine except for a couple of sooty plugs. It was rebuilt about 4K miles ago and I thought it was about time to adjust the valves.

I adjusted them to 10 intake and 18 exhaust and it STILL won't start. I did get a tiny bit of popping through the carb though. I just can't believe that they are still to tight..... I am going to try 10 & 22 next.... This is incredible..

When you originally adjusted them, did you change their position a lot? Or a little? which way? Did they all seem tight? Loose?

Well this is incredible.... I adjusted them 14 & 24 and all I get is a little puff out the carb.

Originally when I adjusted them I warmed the engine first but by the time I got done it wasn't so hot anymore.... Regardless I fully expected it to start right up and maybe a few would be loose and I'd have to run it then check them again.... I never expected this.

Is the firing order on a 62 235, 1-5-3-6-2-4. I hope not because that is the way I have it wired.

Tab you got the firing order right. Did you replace the fouled Plugs?

Can you rule out an ignition timing problem? Is the distributor tight (won't rotate by hand)? If not, could you have bumped it out of time when adjusting the valves?

The distributor rotates clockwise. I made the mistake of wiring up mine counterclockwise the first time I did it and had a horrible backfire blow my aircleaner off the carburator.

Black sooty plugs are definately not a sign of tight valves. Tight (intake) valves behave exactly like a vacuum leak, which causes a lean mixture.

I bet if you replace all your plugs with new ones it will start right up. Every balky engine I have ever had has needed new plugs. The original 216 my truck had when I got it (may it rust in peace) wouldn't start or even fire but I put in new plugs and it started right up. My dad was about ready to send his lawnmower to the shop when I told him to try a new plug and it started on the first pull.

I was just adjusting the valve lash on my freshly rebuilt 261 last night, which has a new rocker arm assembly and new valves. I was using a flat feeler gauge to set the lash and I was not sure if I was doing it correctly. The mating surface of the rocker arm is concaved and the valve stem if flat, so if you slide the feeler gauge straight in the concaved rocker surface looks like it might cause a wider gap setting than if you just used the corner of the feeler gauge at where the stem meets the rocker arm. I set the gap using to corner of the feeler gauge, which I felt would be more accurate. How do you guys set your valve lash? With the lash set in this way my push rods spin freely when the valve is closed. I would think that if you had your valves adjusted so tight that your engine would not start, that you would not be able to spin the push rods.

dukw45: I checked the distributor and tried to turn it by hand. It is tight. I will check it again though.

I mean how can it be that far off that it won't even think about starting? I have adjusted them tight then loose. I have adjusted them several times before without fanfare.... I don't get it.

Tab,
Someone may have said this before, but ...

1. Have you installed new plugs and gapped them?
2. Have you verified the point gap?
3. Have you checked your fuel filter for debris?
4. Have you been using your choke?
5. Have you verified you are getting spark from each plug?

Good luck!

shoeless: All good questions.

I replaced a couple of the plugs. Regardless, it was running pretty well and I warmed it up prior to adjusting the valves. All the plugs can't just go bad. Even if there were two bad ones it would still start and it wouldn't puff out the carb.

The point gap looks fine. I will check it with a gauge in just a minute but how could the point gap just chage? I never touched the adjust screw.

Fuel filter is brand new and the carb is getting gas.

Yes I have been using the choke. Good question though...

I haven't verified the spark on each plug but will do so shortly.

Thanks!

Make sure you didn't knock off a wire while leaning over the engine. Check small wire from coil to distributor etc.

Tony: Thanks. I checked those several times but it's puffing a bit from the carb which means it's getting spark. I'm going back out there shortly. I'll feel like a real dolt if I have to have it towed....lol

Tab,
The only way to confirm that it is getting spark is to look at each plug while it is being turned over. If you confirm that each plug is firing, is it possible that it is extremely flooded from sustained starting attempts? If so,
just turn it over for 5-6 seconds with the plugs
pulled, then re-install and try again.
Hang in there ... you will succeed !!

Aloha, man this sounds exactly like what I've been going through with my wifes '54 belair/235. I finally replaced the carb with a known good from another engine, even replacing the phenolic block that the carb sit's on, and that's what did it, the block was good but I had a leaking throttle shaft and it would not start at all, backfiring up the carb, etc. If you have another carb laying around try it. The backfire up thru the carb could mean tight valves but more than likely a lean mix which could validate an intake leak. I know you think "but it ran before" but man at this point try it. As for adjusting valves I get them close then do it while it's running, you can actually feel it come alive that way.

My 261 sits a lot. Lately I can only get it started if I pour a little gas down the carb. I know you said it is getting gas, but try it.

This sounds like the same problem Bruce W was having on the Raising a 235 from the dead chanel. I am still trying to start my 235 and am getting the same results from the same things we are talking about. My original problems started with a valve adjustment with the engine running. I was using a feeler gauge and tightening things up to remove some clatter then it just slowed and quit. I was also loosing power after a short run, as the engine heated up. I thought this was all due to low compression and went the rebuild route.

The common threads in at least three replys is valve adjustment and carburation.
Kimo appears to have found something with the throttle shaft. Have any of you had problems with your idle mixture adjusting settings. Mine never seemed to worked right and may not have due to air leakage.
Also my engine seems to have been assembled from several compatible engines how about yours?

There has got to be a solution to this that we are missing. It will probably be so simple we will be to embarassed to talk about it.

Aloha, now my complete story, may be helpful and maybe someone can connect the dot's that we're missing. My wife's '54 bel air/235's timing gear went,lot's of damage, anyway off to rebuild shop, I install all the same stuff except of course plugs,points,condensor. install dist. as per manual (rotor facing DOWN), cyl #1 top dead compression stroke, points just opening. Same carb. Now this all sat for about 8 months. the only thing different I did was install a temporary elect. fuel pump with regulator and gage. But man it would not start! backfiring up thru the carb and just being very disagreeable with the whole affair. Well it finally starts but I'm busier than a 14 year old cabin boy on a greek freighter trying to keep it running and hoping that after it warms up it'll calm down! No way, it just wouldn't run. I then changed the distributer with a known good out of another engine, thinking maybe the original got damaged when the timing gear went, nope, no change. I took apart the carb thinking maybe it got gummed up from sitting, also, my wife rebuilt this carb herself over 9 years ago with very little help so I thought I'd find something wrong,nope, looked great in fact. the only part I didn't pay attention to was the throttle body. changed fuel filter, adjusted fuel pressure, 3 lbs at idle!! I'm going mad at this point! Thats when I changed out the carb to see what was up and it improved a lot, but still ran slightly rough. finally re-adjusted the valves, loosened them, but ran very poorly, rough. Thats when I called Marvin, good ol boy mechanic, and towed the flippin car in. well, the valves were still way too tight, (apparently for a powerglide trans after removing pushrod lash there are NO additional turns)anyway and thats when we replaced the carb with a rebuild. He thinks 1 of the lifters is still sticky so we'll re-adjust at a couple hundred miles, she's driving it daily again. The carb change combined with the valve adjust did it. Now 1 more anecdote, my '54 1/2 ton was my 1st stovebolt and I ASSUMED it had solid lifters 'cause i also ASSUMED it was the original engine so i adjusted them while running to the whatever thousanths and it ran great. but every once in awhile it would start clacking away making all kinds of lifter noise, but it was still running good. sometimes at start-up, some-times on the freeway, unpredictable and it would go away everytime I pulled into a mechanic's shop or friends house, I'd check the valve adjust and it checked out good. Never fixed it, sold the truck, it went to England, explained the problem to the new owner that has become a great friend and bestman at my wedding, and I've visited the truck 4 times now, but he has sold it and we think it may be back here in the US, but thats another story,,,,well anyway he ordered a wayne valve cover set and while installing it quess what he found? the engine was a '54, but it was out of a car and it had hydraulic lifters!!!! I never knew so I adjusted them to solid specs and it did run good, real good, he even ran it for a couple years before the discovery!! SO, could your engine be out of a car that had a powerglide trans and therefore be hydraulic? Thanks for reading thru this I know it's long but it's all true. Hope someone can help, I need a beer, ALOOOHA!!!

Don't assume anything! (Makes an a$$ out of U and me!)

Here's an alternative valve adjust method I've used for over 40 years:

Companion cylinder valve adjustment

Turn engine by hand until you observe #6 exhaust valve closing. Continue turning until #6 intake begins to open. (Called "rocking", valves moving in both directions at once) This happens at the top of the exhaust stroke, with the piston at, or near TDC. #1 cylinder, both valves, can be adjusted at this point. Turn until #2 cylinder rocks, adjust #5. (Each time the engine turns 120 degrees, another cylinder will be at TDC, ready to adjust). Turn until #4 rocks, adjust #3. Next 120 degrees, #1 will rock, adjust #6. Rock #5, adjust #2. Rock #3, adjust #4. All 12 valves can be accurately adjusted in 2 turns of a stopped engine, hot or cold, and no oil spilling!

This works on any engine with an even number of cylinders. Easy way to remember which ones to rock/adjust: Write down half the firing order, then write other half underneath it: Chevy 6:

1 5 3
6 2 4

1 & 6 are companion cylinders- - -rock one, adjust the other. Same with 2 & 5, and 3 & 4. Quick, easy, and it works!
Jerry

Aloha Kimo,E komo mai! Since I am the one that wrote the tech tip I felt I should possibly respond on this. This old 235's are simple and very forgiving. Just ask me I know, I have had them "forgive me" a lot. The first thing you need to know is - what engine are you working on- meaning, don't just assume it is a 235 with solids just because it is in yer old truck.

"* If you don't know whether you have solids or hydraulics -- Pull the rocker cover, loosen one rocker, pull the push rod, drop the side cover off, pull that lifter. Now take it to a machinist or mechanic and ask him which it is. OR, once you have the lifter in hand look to see if it has a hole in the cup (top) end and will push down in the center, if it does, it is hydraulic, if not it is solid."

I tried to make the Tech Tip as simple as possible and yet make sure it was correct. 6 and 13 are spot on for the normal pickup 235. The reason I didn't include setting the valves while the engine is running is because most novice mechanics can't get the hang of it right off and I wanted to make it simple but sure for them. By far my prefered way of setting the valves (final adjust) is while the engine is running. (Yes, you can feel the engine "come to life") That was a great story, Kemo, about your wifes car and your truck. I enjoyed it a lot. Mahalo nui loa!!!

Tab, I don't think your problem is in your valves.(unless you have adjusted some exhausts as intakes- does happen) Sounds to me that the problem is in the carb or air intake someplace. Once you set the valves at 6 and 13 cold and start the engine and let it run for 30 minutes it will loosen up (sometime a lot) and then you want to reset the valves. Even to tight a 235 will start and run, maybe not great and will possibly soon bend a push rod. But it will run. It seems that the initial problem wasn't the valves but something to do with the carb or intake. Cold adjust the vavles as per the Tech Tip and then check the timing and make sure you are getting proper fire to the plugs. If it doesn't fire up and run then it is in the carb/intake. Take one thing at a time and make sure it is correct and you will eliminate all but the culprit that is causing the problem. There are many carb and intake guys on this site that would be willing to assist you in fixing it. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks to all for the thoughful replies.

Oly: I just can't believe that the carb would screw-up right after I adjusted the valves. The engine was rebuilt about 4K miles ago and it definately has solids. I am however looking for some hydraulics for this monster as I type. If you have any or know where I can get some at a reasonable price please advise.

When the weather clears (Friday) I will go back out there and adjust the valves AGAIN at 6 & 13 but everybody I talk to tells me a different setting. The guy who rebuilt the motor looked up the hot setting at 8 & 16.

At any rate after I reset them I will check for spark on each plug but it would be very strange for the spark to quit right after I adjusted the valves.

Whoa, Tab!
You can't swap solid and hydraulic lifters without a cam change! The cam profile is different! That clearance on a solid lift cam is the same height as the "clearance ramp", which means there's a slow, gradual lift the same amount as the clearance specification. Hydraulic cams only have about .005" clearance ramps, because they run with essentially zero clearance all the time. Hydraulics on a solid shaft would have the same effect as a mild racing cam, opening the valves sooner, and closing them later. Also, cams and lifters MUST stay in the same relationship once they're run in, (cam lobe and lifter together) or the cam lobes can wear out in a hurry when different lifters are installed. If you want hydraulic lifters, you'll need to change to the correct cam, too.

If you pull the side plates off the engine, look at the tops of the lifters, where the pushrods fit. If there's a small spring clip holding the top into the lifter, it's hydraulic. Chevy solid lifters are one-piece units.
Jerry

Aloha, Oly thank you for welcoming me. HotRod Lincoln, good one! I forgot about that trick, you know it even works on old radial aircraft engines.

Brudda Tab, outta curiosity, have you taken a compression check since the adjust?

And remember "Ho`omanawanui!"
[hoh oh mah nah vah nui!] =PATIENCE!! (yeah right, I wanted to shot her dern car!)

A hui hou! (see ya later)

Hey I'll try this on youse guy's, here's my stuff;

http://community.webshots.com/user/kimo90803

Do you have a fibre cam gear in the motor ,, was it replaced at the overhaul ?

Hotrod: Thanks for that bit o advice. A mild race came eh? Hmmmm....

I'm positive that these are solids. The truck is all original. Although after the rebuild the guy adjusted the lifters running and it was very quiet but wasn't running very well. I took it back to him and said I'd prefer them to be a bit loose rather than to tight.

The weather has turned to SH!T so it will be Friday or Saturday before I can do a compression / spark test. I need a garage...

As I predicted a few messages ago, the solution to starting my engine was simple. I backed off on the intake valve settings, replaced the plugs and it started. I am not sure it is perfect yet, but it does idle at 500 RPM and is timed correctly. I still think I need to play with the valves, but it runs and sounds good.

Theres an old saying about solid lifter valve trains, "I'd rather hear 'em than burn 'em". meaning their better noisy! I love solids! Glad to hear your sucess, wish it to all!!!!!!
------------------------------
hornitos is good tequila!!

Well went out again this evening and reset the valves AGAIN. Did it 4 times. Twice with the "rocking" method as described above (8 & 16) and once to tight and once very loose. All I get is some "PFFUT" out the carb.

I guess I'll do a compression test next. What is the cold compression on a 62, 235?

I have a vacuum gauge. Where should I attach it and what should the cranking engine vacuum be?

I'm going to set the valves at 8 & 16 again then go from there.

Depending on cranking speed, you should get compression pressures at, or near, 100 PSI. It will start and run at about 85 or above. Here's another method, using air pressure, if it's available. Get the piston on the cylinder you want to check at Top Dead Center (TDC)on the compression stroke (both valves closed) and lock the flywheel by putting the transmission in gear, and setting the parking brake. Put air pressure into the cylinder by brazing a fitting into a discarded spark plug shell and attaching the air hose to the cylinder. Listen for leaks, at the carburetor, exhaust pipe, and oil fill. You've just checked both valves, and the piston rings, for leaks. More than a small seep indicates you've got a stuck, or burned valve, or bad rings. (or too-tight valve clearance).

Did you install new spark plugs, and are they firing?
Jerry

the firing order is 153624, right?

HRLincoln: Thanks for the info. The engine was just rebuilt 4K miles ago AND it was running pretty well before I "fixed" it by adjusting the valves. I will do the compression check shortly.

I reset the valves to 8&16 and check for spark. Spark is strong. Still doesn't start. All it does is shake a bit now while I crank the starter. That means that it is trying to start. I may just go out on my new Superglide and work on this truck tomorrow....lol.