The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Distributer Question

Members: I took off my Distrib. to clean up and get ready for an HEI set-up. Well I noticed this small knob screwed onto the body of the distrib. I believe this is an octane adjuster ? I took it apart and found spring in the body then the housing and then the screw cap. The cap was full of a heavy grease. Is this the proper set-up?
Please see the link pics..the order of parts in the pic was the way I found it. Do I put it back that way..including gease in the screw cap.
Also, here is a pic of the internal part...what HEI will fit?
Help
http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i381/snipewarrior/Internal%20Parts/P1010013.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i381/snipewarrior/Internal%20Parts/P1010021.jpg

The knob on the side of the distributor is actually for lubrication of the distributor shaft bushing. It would be filled with grease, then the knob is turned 1 turn every 1000 miles to force grease into the bushing. Unfortunatly, many times this was not done, and the bushing runs dry, leading to prematrue shaft wear.
To answer the second qustion, if you're looking for a true HEI, you would be changing out the entre distributor, there isn't a way to convert. Langdons has HEI distributors that are already modified to work in the 235. If you mean to eliminate the points, Pertronix makes a kit that will work in your existing distributor.

Hello Jimmi

Check the TECH TIPS for HEI information.
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/hei_conversion.htm

Be sure that you don't loose part number 4 ,it's really easy to misplace it.
distributor parts diagram


Tim

Great...I didn't have a #4 in my housing...Now Where can I get that and how does it go in???????? And Yes I just want to go with Pertronics and use my distributor...Any Idea what kind of grease goes in the cap?
Thanks

Pack it with light chassis grease and as far as I know, no one sells those felt discs. But you can make a wick from 5/16" felt round stock avalable from McMaster Carr. Cut it about 1/8" or better.
Stock:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/131623724/large
Cut:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/131623727/large
Installed:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/131623728/large


Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Jimmi,
Thank you for bringing this up. You have exactly what I have and are a step ahead of my very same questioning.
GOOD information here!
BTW I didn't have a part #4 in my assembly either!
Denny, this is the felt item you are referring to?
The spring compresses it?
Jerry

Re-posted the some pix Jerry, take a look.
DG

Felt may work OK but originally the disc is some kind of plastic. I make new ones out of Nylon on my lathe for the ones I work on where the disc is worn out.

Sorry, I can't view the pictures from work (company filters certain websites) so I'll have to wait till I get home.
I'm not getting how this works though... usually a spring pushing aganst a plug denotes a type of check valve. But screwing in the cap adds grease via pressure?

The spring and disc are used to keep the slop out of the shaft, this keeps the point gap uniform.
The grease cup lubes the wear disc.

The disc is some type of fibre or plastic,they're solid material.


Tim

The "fibre plug" in mine (three 1954 and later distributors) are as as Tim described: fiber/plastic, hard-material.

Dave that's what I used to think and I'm sure that I've taken phenolic discs out of them when I've rebuilt them. But the parts books show only felt wicks for the 216 and 235 and there is no listing of a disc. Actually a felt wick makes more sense, I always wondered what the purpose of a phenolic disc was, seemed like it was just an invite for trouble to have it rubbing on the shaft. I've often wondered if the disc wasn't between the spring and the felt wick originally and the wicks were simply worn away from 50 years of use. Or if originally one side of the wick had the phenolic bonded to it. I’ve machined little brass plugs to push against the felt before. In fact I’ve got a spare here left over from the last ones I made.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/131631563/large

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
The parts book Tim linked to above (item #4) calls it a "Fiber plug".
I have had a lot of these apart and it looks like some kind of plastic to me. Who knows.

Just a minor correction: Fibre Plug is how item #4 was spelt in the diagram for which Tim gave the link above.

The information shown under 2.364 in the 1957 Master Parts Catalog does not help for 6-cylinder engines 1953 and newer (or, am I reading this wrong)? Is this referring to the felt wick at the top of the distributor post (under the rotor)?

Clearly (from the MPC), felt was used up through 1953 216 and 1952 235s (at least).

However, what is the Bakelite Plug (part #7) made-of in this 48-51/52 diagram? (also referred-to as Bakelite in the earlier Shop Manuals, at least back to 1941)

Denny,

Have you checked the spring and fibre/Bakelite plug in your 1954 distributor?

That's what these pictures are from. When I pulled it apart there wasn't any felt or fiber in it, the spring was simply rubbing against the shaft. It apparently didn't do any damage because I had the shaft out and there weren't any marks on it.
Denny G

By the way Tim, package was shipped this morning, should see it on Friday.

Tim,
This is weird, I see in your link it calls it a wick/felt.
I have had a lot of 216 and 235 distributors apart and they all have had the same hard plastic disc.

Tim, Bakelite makes more sense.

We need someone with a nos distributor to take a look.I know just the guy that may have one or two of them.I will try to get in touch with him in the next few days.


Tim

Good idea, Tim. This is interesting.

(how sad -- "this is interesting")

Now you want to really cornfuse the issue, look at this illustration for the '55-'57 and they show a lock washer in line with the spring in the exploded view. http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/1929_57chevyparts/57cmpc0224.htm
Now I'm really getting screwed up, and I'd still like to hear a logical explanation why you would put an abrasive material spring loaded against a ground and polished shaft???

I think the engineers took a break and turned the illustrations over to the technical writers. I had a friend once that was a technical writer and he couldn't screw in a light bulb, but he could tell you how to do it.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Man alive what a great topic...keep going boys I'm enjoying the education. I won't do anything till " We " figure out whats what.
Thanks

It looks like the 1941 Parts manual calls out a part number for the "Plug, fibre".

The 1954 and 1957 parts manuals do not seem to show that part in the 2.364 group listing.

Hoyt

How much clearer can this be? Bakelite! Now that we know what it is, what is/was it's purpose?

The diagram shows the plug but not the wick.
Look on the next page under "Care and Adjustment".

"Place a drop or two of oil on the felt wick in the distributor cam, tighten the grease cup a turn every 1,000 miles... "

I think the plug in this example is serving as a seat between the wick and spring.

By definition, a wick's purpose is to convey liquid (lube) by capillary action. Tightening the grease cup is like pumping pressure in a kerosene lantern.
I understand the principle now. I don't have a wick or plug in my unit but I'll take care of that.
This has certainly been informative!

Jerry

Difficult to tell without actually having the parts in front of you and in their original wrapper but in that group; the 816803 Wick, shaft oil - would probably be the one that is under the rotor to lubricate the cam. The 802692 Wick, grease. cup spring - would probably be the one that we are talking about here. The 1845715 Spring is as noted to hold the (felt wick). The 1869303 Plug, fiber (in grease cup hole) is in there also but once again, god only knows for what reason.
Think we need to clear up the thing about the Bakelite that would have been used in the plug. Bakelite, Micarta, Garolite, Phenolic sheet is all the same thing. Could have been made with cellulose paper, cotton or linen fabrics, synthetic yarns, glass fabrics. For this plug that apparently rode on the distributor shaft, I would imagine they would have used on of the natural fiber laminates. McMaster Carr has sample sheet assortments if one is looking for some of this material to make “Bakelite” components out of. It’s available from them in 12”x12” sheets in various thicknesses and in rod form which one could use to make new plugs if that‘s what you would like. The grade CE rods are available in 5/16” and are made with a cotton-cloth laminate which would be about the least abrasive. Cheap to, just a couple of bucks for a 48” rod.
If your gonna get serious about restoration, then you need to book mark McMaster Carr. I place an order with them several times a month. They will deliver the next day in most cases, have no minimums and stock tons of stuff to duplicate the raw materials that the factories used to make the parts.
I hate to sound like an SOB or unfriendly, but I often get requests for parts, I keep a small supply of material for my restoration work. I’m not a supplier of raw materials or finished parts so please don’t ask for the parts that you may see me making in the pictures, I make them for my own restorations and only post the pictures to share my methods. I’m more than glad to offer any advice on sources or how I make something, but I’m not set up as a parts supplier.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny; looking at the linked parts book, I see the 816803 but I don't see the 802692. I see only one wick listed for the six cylinder. Where did the other number come from. The service manual makes reference to removing the "bakelite shaft contact plug", spring and grease cup and replacing same; no reference to a wick.

Dave's reply/explanation sounds good.

The various references to felt and wicks (as shown in the MPCs) are confusing because there is a felt wick at the top of the distributor post, at least in the earlier distributors (under the rotor - "Shaft Felt Wick, in Cam", item #37 in the 47-51/52 Shop Manual, in link given above).

""Place a drop or two of oil on the felt wick in the distributor cam, tighten the grease cup a turn every 1,000 miles... ""

I think that those instructions refer to the wick at the top of the distributor post, under the rotor?

Tim's suggestion that a NOS distributor, 1952 or earlier (and 1954 and later), would be the best bet on knowing what was there originally.

Getting to sound like a political debate. Think I'm just gonna run out to the barn and get some work done. I'll get back to reading this after everybody gets there interpretations and opinions posted.

dg

Jimmi V

You may have already done this, if not,
now would be a good time to inspect the drive gear on the distributor.

gear pic

I bring this up because mine was loose and it was giving me fits trying to time the engine.

I ended up purchasing a replacement distributor from NAPA. They had one in stock for about $75.00+core.
I believe kits are available to re-pin the gear.

Good Luck

Mine spins freely, how would I know if it's loose...or is that obvious ?

I spoke with my contact today,and "he said he would have to take one apart and look".He said he doesn't remember ever seeing a felt wick under the fibre disc.He will get back with me,when he has time to take a look at it.


Tim

this is a loose gear



Good Luck

A video is worth a thousand words. Nice job.

Dads,Thanks Man...Thats better than a picture. Just ran out to the shop and checked...mine is solid. Thats a relief..
What a discovery this Forum is...I would be hard pressed to dig this info up on my own....Man what a long way we have come....Duey decimal system to instant computer Info.....Gotta love advancement...
Thanks Again

How about the part about the octane selector/adjuster? Is that the cup housing itself? And how do you set it to zero? I don't get that part. Nice topic but I'm a little late for the party:) freezerburn

Just found the answer from a post by F&J. Apparently setting the octane selector to zero was another way of saying loosen the distributor bolt and turn between advance and retard (zero). In the context of preparing to time the engine that is. So there it is, and I learned alot. Thanks again stovebolters -freezerburn