The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 3 Speed Pops Out of First

Got my truck on the road and today was the first real test. I notice the 3 speed is popping out when I take my foot of the accelerator. Tranny was rebuilt.
What should I check out?

Thank you

I had a 61 C20 for a few years and I had a 3 on the column that used to pop out once in a while. I replaced the throw out bearing and checked my pressure plate on the clutch and that fixed my problem. Maybe yours is similar. Good Luck, I am interested to hear how you solve this. Keep us posted. Warm regards, Will

Unkilrod, Jumping out of gear for first gear will probably be:
1)Interlock/detent/shifter fork on side cover worn
2)uneven wear on teeth of cluster gear or 1-R slider gear

for 2&3:
1)Interlock/detent/fork/ring on OD of syncrothat fork engages
2)uneven wear on the engaging splines of the effected end of the syncronizer or gear it mates with (main drive or 2nd)-usually these situations jump out when pulling.

less likely is problem w/pilot bearing in end of c/s
just my 2 cents worth

if it was rebuilt, what you should check out is why the rebuilder charged for something they didn't do

Bill

Make sure that your linkage is adjusted so that it is fully engaged in first gear. It is unusual for first gear to pop out unless it has seriously worn parts. Fred

rfs56trk is exactly right.Closely inspect the attachment points of the shift linkage for looseness.If the shift detents are not fully positioned they will work to move the thing out of the effected gear.position the DIDCONNECTED shift arm in first gear then see if the shift rods are going to bring it to that point.every time.No looseness allowed.There was some hardware in the rod terminations that can not be replaced with common washer and cotter key.Of course there is a procedure for proper alignment of all the linkage and someone here will probably supply.

Look for tired rear motor mounts which can cause those symptoms.

Hi All,
The 3 speed was rebuilt last year...here is the catch. I just put the truck on the road this past weekend as it is a frame off resto.
I notice it will not pop when going up a hill or straight. Only going down a hill and with no power. I will take the truck to the tranny shop and have them check it out.

Thank you!

Hi All,
OK, so I replaced the rubber grommets inside the shifter rods .
After doing this...the shifter will no longer go into gear and will move up freely to the 12 o'clock position.
What did I do to cause this new problem? How do I fix it?

Thank you!

Take everything loose you had apart, put the shifter in the normal 3 o'clock neutral position, put the shift levers on the transmission in neutral and put things together again and see what happens.

As for the jumping out of gear problem during engine braking, I would suspect a bad pilot bearing or no pilot bearing or a clutch housing not centered. I always use a dial indicator to check the circle as well as the flat part of the clutch housing.

Hi crenwelge,
Thank you for the help. I will check it out. So I must have moved the gears out of place causing the shifter to be out of whack.
Jon

Boy I have no idea what I did,
But I put the trans in neutral and hooked everything back up and the shifter still goes from the 2 o'clock to the 12 noon position.

you stated...I will take the truck to the tranny shop and have them check it out.

did you?

Hi Joker,
Yes, there is an issue with first gear popping out but I was just simply replacing the grommets on the shift box rods.

I think I figured things out. I took the cap off the shifter and noticed this rod out of place with the "forks" from the shifter arms. I put the rod back in line with the forks and I think it will work. Problem I am having now is the cap or cover for the shifter box is not mounting right. The bottom shifter arm is not resting in the groove of the box.
Will figure it out.

Jon

Jon - you may need to adjust the connections outside the box to the trans rods, the forks inside the box should be facing straight up when the slots are lined up [neutral], but they look to be off to the inside a bit

Bill

Thank you Bill,
Will check it out tomorrow. Can see why dad took the 3 out!

once ya get it all set they work fine with no maintenence for years .... might want to find some bronze bushings instead of the rubber grommet style on the rod joints, especially the ones right at the trans cover arms, they're always the first things to wear and cause lockups by being sloppy

Bill

Know a god place for those?
I was not impressed with the ones that I got from Jim Carter.
They came with this little metal piece in the middle of the rubber grommet.

Thank you Bill for looking at the photos!

Jon

not off hand, I seem to remember finding them at NAPA, not sure the application but they fit the holes in the trans arms well and I reamed them a bit to fit the rod ends

Bill

So I took the box of the column and took the cover off. Looks like there is a spring that needs to be attached to that middle lever between the forks.
After getting everything back together I notice the shifter arms are now in opposite ends. Is this right?
Take the truck on the road the shifter feels very different now. having a hard time going into first and reverse. Any thoughts?

Thank you for help!

Jon

geez Jon, don't know how you got the arms pointed opposite like that, but even more I don't see how you could have gotten it hooked up that way! not sure about that spring, I'd have to look at one I've got around somewhere, but the arms ahould be like this in neutral ... poor picture, but this is the way things line up then, when the notches are straight up, the arms both point toward the engine

you don't have to remove the whole box from the column to fiddle with it, just take the cover off and it'll be easier to see what's going on while the trans rods are still connected - that's the best way to adjust the length of the rods thru the keepers too so those forks are lined up right while the trans is actually in neutral

Bill

Hi Bill,
Thank you for working with me on this.
Oh, I can find away to mess anything up trust me.
I have a feeling the spring inside the box is all wrong. Is there any pictures of the break down in a manual? I looked in the two I have and found nothing.
On your third photo the spring on yours is in a different location than mine. Mine is clipped on the fork closest to the fire wall..I assume that is the 1st and rev? the other end of the spring is clipped onto the middle lever in between the forks. Having it this way causes the shift arms to go in opposite directions...but it did kinda work when I tested truck on road...but there is something still wrong.

Thank you!
Jon

Jon, no problem - your determination is contagious I looked at that box [still on the bench years after that pic!] - the spring position isn't obvious and the one end I can see without digging out the grease is straight ... that spring mainly serves to keep the 2 forks spread, it's what makes the lever at the wheel 'springy' in neutral, and I really doubt it should involve the pawl - the movement of that pawl from one fork to the other is what gives the R-1 / 2-3 positions, then it serves to pull either fork to select the gear

in production now, folks arriving, if I have time today I'll pop the top on my 58 and have a look - or I might remember where the clean rebuilt one for the next project is and get some better pics

Bill

Thank you Bill very very much for the help.
I am at a loss with this one. Scratching my head...
Have you seen a break down on how those shifter boxes go together?
Some pictures would be very helpful.
Can you tell me which fork does R-1 / 2-3?

Thank you again!

Jon

The lever closest to the steering box controls 2nd and 3rd. The one closest to the steering wheel is R and 1. The spring holds the finger in the 2 and 3 fork. When you pull up on the lever, it compresses the spring and allows the finger to go into the R,1 notch. Therefore the finger is normally in the 2,3 notch. If you remove the 1,R rod and allow the lever to move, the finger will have no notch to go into and then the finger will not be able to go back into the the normal 2,3 notch. It is not necessary to take the box apart to correct this. However since you have the box apart, squeeze the 2 levers together and make sure the finger is in the bottom notch and the top lever has the notch right above it so the finger can go in it when you move the shaft towards the steering wheel and then put the cover back on. Your picture No. 3 shows the box correctly assembled. The finger is in the 1,2 notch and the R1 notch is directly above it. My computer with my Canon program crashed last Friday otherwise I would post pictures. You have to remember that when there is no rod on the 1,R lever, it is free to move around and wind up in the situation you are in. Put it back together like it was in #3 and then hook up the rods. It is handy to have someone watch the levers so they stay parallel. I used to stick a small board in there to hold the 2 parallel while I hooked the linkage up. Your dilemma isn't anything that hasn't happened a thousand times before.

Hi Cren,
Thank you,
I really think my issue is the placement of that spring. At the R/1 lever the spring clips here (I think) . But this is the very first photo I took when I took the cap off (this pic the spring is nowhere to be seen). One the other end I "assume" the spring clips onto that finger (bad photo but the spring is just below the 2/3 lever) . When I clipped the spring there that is what caused the shifter arms get all out of whack.
Also, with it set up this way I have a very hard time getting it into 1/R. 2/3 is not an issue but the "feel" of the shifter is rough and grindy not smooth like before I got myself in this pickle.

I think I may have figured out your problem. The curl on the spring lays on the round part of the finger. The other end doesn't hook on to anything. I just took one apart from a 1956 and if I hook the spring on the lever like you show in your picture, it makes the lever turn. The spring is there to provide up and down tension between the finger and the 2,3 lever but not to put twisting tension on it. Try assembling it with the curl laying on the back side of the finger and don't hook the other end to anything.

SWEET!
I will go check that out and get back to you in a bit!

Cren,
OK! That was the problem. The spring should not be on the 1/R fork or lever. It is all better now...still a small problem with 1/R But I hope it is just a small adjustment.

Thank you and Bill for the help...and insight on my problem.

Jon

Jon, the hook of the spring is on the pawl and toward the bottom of the box .... I cleaned up the one on the bench to get better pics - see this one and 2 preceeding and note text below them ... from your pics you have the spring upside down

Bill

Hi Bill,
Yes, I think I figured it out. The bottom of the spring does clip around the finger. The top or other end of the spring is not attached to anything and must lay on the bottom of the box.
I was able to fix this and the truck seems to be much better. Now can I adjust the box where it rides on the steering column? looks like it rides in this little cut out on top of the steering column.

Thank you for photos they are just what I needed!

Jon

for positioning the box there's a small knob on the base of the box and a dimple in the column, no adjustment in where it mounts, but it looks like your rods from the box to the trans may be coming thru the clamps a bit too much - which could make the forks in the box not centered straight up

if it's not going thru the gears smoothly, loosen things up and get the arms on the trans in their neutral position, then the forks in the box straight up with the shift lever in neutral, that will position the rods in their clamps .... also check the adjustments in the shop manual [sect 7-4] for positioning the shift lever knuckle at the top of the column ... cinch it all down

and get out there and drive'er!

Bill

I finally called the shop that did the rebuild on the tranny. I expected some grief from the owner because it has been a few years. I explained to him the truck has only been on the road for about 400 miles. To my surprise he said no problem...bring the truck in next week and he will take a look at it.

Thanks!

nice to have at least one shop owner be helpful!! hope he gets it right

Bill

Hi Bill,
Does that make sense that the problem why the truck pops out of 1st and 2nd could just be an adjustment? Only does it when going down a hill...

Thanks!

Jon

My 54/3100 did that and it was a simple linkage adjustment.

I hope that is the case and I will let ya all know how it goes! Thanks always for the help!!