The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1936 Chevy 1.5 Ton Wheels

Hello all,
I'm new to the truck restoration world but have done a few old cars. I have a '36 1.5 ton dually that I'll be starting on soon, and am in the research phase. My question tonite is about the old style 2-piece rims used on these old trucks. I have heard all the danger stories, and was wondering if aftermarket rims are available that are safer, but still look original?! If not, what's the best way to handle these old rims and tires? Thanks for any help!
Jeff

are the rims a 2 piece with a locking ring (3 parts total) or only 2 piece that join in the middle? got any pics?

Glad to see some buddy form fl. in Big Bolt, welcome. I found one truck tire place here in Jacksonville to change my 20'' split rim tires but most places won't touch them. The split rims that split in the middle are the most dangerous. Mine on my 46 have the locking ring on the outside of the front tires. Newer rims (19.5 or 22) are to big or to small.You see a lot of wheel talk on big bolt

If your truck has its OEM wheels they are safe to use today assuming they are in good condition, you have them handled by professionals, aired in a cage, etc. What we never know, though, when this question comes up is whether at some point in a truck's life it might have had replacement wheels installed.

I've got a pretty good library of old wheel catalogs and other wheel literature. Three period references say that 1936 ton and one half Chevy trucks could have been equipped with either 20" x 5" or 20" x 6" Budd type wheels having 10 lugs x 7.25" bolt circle, and a 4.75" center hole. All the wheels cited used a Firestone "RH" rim/ring design combination. This is a solid one piece ring design where the ring has two indented areas on opposite sides of its inner lip. These allow the ring to be slipped (forced) past the rim during tire service. Here is a cross section drawing of that design.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll89/truckdog62563/Wheel%20Profiles/Budd1944FirestoneRH.jpg

If the truck had wheels replaced during its life, there were dozens of other locking ring designs used. It is very important that the rim/ring combinations be kept together as sets. It is very dangerous to mix match rim and ring designs.

The most dangerous wheel design, and one that no reputable shop will touch today, is called a Firestone "RH-5°". There is no chance that the truck came new with these wheels since the design wasn't introduced until the mid to late 1940s. But replacements could have been mounted. The following is a cross section of this design, and a picture of one showing the joint at the middle of the rim.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/...0Profiles/Budd1949FirestoneRH5degree.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll89/truckdog62563/wheels/FirestoneRH-5degree004.jpg

Finding shops to service these old wheels can be a challenge. Best to avoid places like Walmart or other general service shops. Seek out the big rig shops or farm equipment shops. Stu

Edit - I should add that the 5" and 6" width measurements were based on an old system of determining wheel width. The true widths were 3.75" and 4.33" respectively. Stu

Ok, alot of good info from you all. The tire size on the front right now shows "6.50-20" and the rear shows "7.50-20". I will try to get a few pics of the rims too. They are two-piece rims, and do have the locking rings. Thanks!
Jeff

Oops...let me clarify my earlier response. The rims are two-piece including the locking ring...rim and ring...that's it. I'll try to get the pics soon.

Jeff

The other piece of your original question, that I neglected to answer, asked whether modern tubeless wheels were available to allow you to get rid of the multi-part rims. The answer is yes, but finding them would be difficult. Tubeless truck wheels were introduced to the market in 1956 having your bolt pattern in both 19.5" and 22.5" sizes. All of these wheels, however, have a 5.25" center hole. I'll defer to Grigg and the others to tell us whether your originals were hub piloted or stud piloted since my references don't tell me that. But the fact of your center hole being smaller, if hub piloted, would mean you'd have to have hub adapters made to use these newer wheels (assuming you could find a set).

The other issue is rim width. The earliest of these tubeless wheels were quite narrow at 5.25". This would make them visually similar to your stock lock ring wheels, but would create tire issues. The 22.5" tubeless is technically the correct replacement size for a 20" tube type. The narrowest 22.5" tire available today is a 9R22.5 which is too wide for that rim. It is spec'd for a 6.75" wide rim. I've heard of guys using this tire on the narrow rims, but the manufacturers didn't recommend it. And you'd probably have to use spacers between the rear duals to avoid tire rub.

The use of 19.5s would be the other option, but again I'll defer to the others to say whether you'd have drum clearance issues with these. Technically, a 19.5" tubeless wheel is the equivalent of a 17" tube type. Below is a side-by-side diagram of a tube type and tubeless to show the differences in rim design, and to explain why the tubeless and tube types have the same outside tire diameters while having numerically different rim sizes. The diagram compares 22.5" and 20", but the same concept also applies to 19.5" and 17". Stu

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll89/truckdog62563/wheels/profilecomparison.jpg

To add some details to truckdog's post,

Any wheel with 10 lugs on 7.25" center hole will be hub piloted.
Yours should have a 4.75" center hole, and any tubeless wheels you find will have 5.25" center hole. Because the wheels are hub piloted you must have bushings made to take up the difference between larger center hole and the smaller hub. Some more info and details available here
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/wheels/

Rim width, if you find some 22.5" wheels with the 7.25" bolt circle they will be 5.25" wide. Most tire manufacturers recommend a 6" wide rim as a minimum for 9R22.5 tires. I have 9R22.5 tires on 5.25x22.5 wheels on my truck, they were easy to install and seem to have sufficient space between the duals, again this is not recommended, but you can probably get away with it.

Other tubeless option is 19.5" wheels, they are very easy to find because they used them well into the 90's. 8r19.5 tires are about as tall and narrow as you can get for them, and are only about 32-33" tall, this may work OK on your older truck. I think they look to small on a 48 and later 1.5 or 2 ton.
Now the big catch with these wheels is they might not fit over your rear brake drums, a test fit is in order before you buy any.

Grigg

Thanks Grigg. I knew that they were hub piloted back to 1942, but records before that were silent to that aspect. Also interesting that you don't have to use spacers on your duals. Good to know. I have another friend that uses the 9s on his 5.25" rims and loves them. He says they crown a bit but that it really improves steering input. Stu

Hello again! Here's a shot of my rims. Follow the link below:

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/...nd%20a%20Half%20Ton%20Truck/hobby002.jpg

Thanks,

Jeff

Yup, they look like they're probably "RH" lock rings laying upside down on the wheels. Stu

Hey Jeff, I have a 41 1.5 ton and I need 1 or 2 of those two piece wheels. If you decide to change to a different wheel, I'll happily buy your old ones!
Rob

Thanks for all the help and info on this wheel topic! I really want to keep as much on the truck that is original as possible, so I'll probably keep the rims. If not, however, I know where to give 'em a good home.
Thanks again!

I'm new to these 'widowmaker' wheels, never knew of them till I brought my new truck home. Was wondering if someone can let me know if these are the windowmakers or not. Truck is a '46 2ton

http://cowfast.com/46truck/images/wheel1a.jpg
http://cowfast.com/46truck/images/wheel1b.jpg
http://cowfast.com/46truck/images/wheel2a.jpg
http://cowfast.com/46truck/images/wheel2b.jpg

Joe,
Hi. I'm a new guy too, but have read the tire/rim info that the guys here have left, so I'm sure someone will help you out. I am also lucky enough to have an 80-something-year-old gentleman as a source of info on these old Chevy trucks. He is a friend of my dad's, and used to drive almost every truck made! His advice on all these old rims on the larger trucks was to have a professional tire shop work on them. He also said that when he used to change tires, he would wrap the tire with snow chains while working. Good luck and have fun. This site is a great source of info.

Joe, I'm not sure but I don't think you have the widowmaker rims. the bad ones are firestone RH5.

Joe_Fish,
Looks like you have 3 piece lock ring wheels, which are no problem if in good shape and handled carefully.

jeffs1936,
Do you have some more pictures? I don't think those are the RH-5 wheels, look more like two piece lock ring wheels, but better pictures will tell.

Grigg

Thanks Grigg.
I guess my first step is to find a tire shop that will work on them, unmount the tires, get the wheels painted / powder coated then new tires mounted.

I'll try to get a better shot of my rims soon, and add the link.

Jeff

Grigg,
Hi. Sorry it took so long, but finally had some time to get more of my rim pics loaded:
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/...0a%20Half%20Ton%20Truck/halloween004.jpg

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/...0a%20Half%20Ton%20Truck/halloween005.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/...0a%20Half%20Ton%20Truck/halloween006.jpg

Jeff

Yep, looks like a wheel.

Inspect them as recommended here on page 42 and 43
http://www.accuridewheels.com/completeversion.pdf

Grigg

I have a 1936 1.5 ton as well. I was thinking about this today, can I get the tire on with a tire machine if I were to stitch weld the rim together? I was thinking of either welding the rim around the center and running a tubless tire or just stitch welding it and running a tube and stock tire. I love the look of the stock wheels but at the same timeI am going to be driving it often. And yes I have a nice welding shop with tools to do and check the wheel run out if I go this route.

Hello guys, I'll throw my 2 cents in. I took all 6 of my wheels down by hand, not that bad. had them blasted and I painted them. Took them to Les Schuab and they mounted them with new Flaps and inner tubes. No problem. Took them home mounted them on the front ,no problem, they are 7.50x 20's they fit the front only because of what I had learned in the Stovebolt years ago that fender interferance WILL happen with the taller tires unless you do a pre-emtive strike while building the truck. I raised the truck 3/4" taller than stock at the cab mounts with UHMW plastic. The tires turn perfect with room to spare. Check out Photobucket. The back was a real differant story. These nice bigger tires rub in the middle and the only way to get them out any farther is spacers. I know, I know, spacers are not good. Number one., my wifes truck will never carry a load again in it's life so I made aluminum spacers 1" thick and found out that the studs are not long enough. I found longer studs but not the original diameter. I drilled out hubs and pressed in the new studs and drilled the drums to fit the new studs. I put the inner wheel assembly on and put the 1" spacer on and then the outer wheel.Perfect fit and the truck runs true and straight. I had the tires ballanced of course. Hope this helps, the original wheels are really cool. Use them if you can.

Nope, won't happen.
The multi piece wheels are multi piece for a reason, it's necessary to install the tire.
Newer one piece tubeless wheels have a dropped center that the bead nestles in while it's stretched/slipped over the rim. You can not put a tire over the rim on a wheel without a dropped center.

If your wheels are good use them as they were made to be used.

Grigg

A little clarification is needed on my past post. I drilled the rear hubs to fit the new studs. Then i had to drill the rear wheels also, not something everyone wants to do. I have 2 spares that cover the 2 hole sizes.