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| | | | Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 24 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 24 | I was told I should use epoxy primer then body filler, then epoxy primer, block sand, then primer sealer.
I'm a beginner just wondering if I could go with body filler first then epoxy primer.
thx any help appreciated | | | | | Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 145 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 145 | I'm also a beginner. I've been doing a lot of reading, and it seams that it is split opinions on this topic. Half the painters like to put on the epoxy on the bare metal for a protective layer to prevent the filler from absorbing moister and causing rust. The other half puts the filler on the bare metal because it is a much stronger bond, and say they have never had a problem with the filler absorbing moisture as long as it is sealed. What I did is put filler on the bare metal and level as much as I could. As soon as I put my epoxy on, that brought out more low spots that I missed. Then I put more filler on top of the epoxy where needed. So most of the filler is on metal, but I wasn't afraid of putting more on top of the epoxy. I guess I'll see what holds and what doesn't.
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| | | | | Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 24 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 24 | thx Dave I think that's what I'm gonna do | | | | | Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 169 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 169 | In the collision industry filler over bare metal is the standard, even thou some car makers say to retain factory warranty epoxy is applied first. Filler on bare metal has been the standard for around 30 years.
In addition, most filler jobs are never exposed longer then a day or two without being primed or painted. I can have a quarter panel cut off and a new one installed sitting in paint before the end of the day.
The home user, I highly doubt can finish a panel and prime in a day or two. Thats why you see epoxy been used first, its mainly because you are preventing flash rust from developing because you have metal exposed for long periods of time.
It has little to do with the filler absorbing the moisture but having bare metal exposed and starting to rust and you dont even see it.
In addition, filler sticks better to fresh epoxy then metal.
The half that says filler over bare metal are probably collision guys, the other half that goes with epoxy are probably resto guys. Sometimes what the collision industry uses and does is NOT the best route for a restoration. Collision is all about speed and often quality and durablity suffers, you want products and techniques geared towards that mentality?...Eric...Collision technicain.
P.S. all my work at home gets epoxy first then filler. | | | | | Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 946 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 946 | I agree with sevt_chevelle. If we were in a shop, filler on bare metal would be fine, but at home where the wife is yellin' and the kids are cryin' you just don't have the time. I always use epoxy on bare metal then filler, more epoxy, then 2k. And here in Florida you have to spray any bare metal fast.
Good luck. | | | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,997 Big Bolt Forum Co-moderator | | Big Bolt Forum Co-moderator Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,997 | Newbie question.....what is 2k?
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When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton | | | | | Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 305 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 305 | i would sugest that is it is bare metal u go with self eaching first then filler then epoxy
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| | | | | Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 169 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 169 | i would sugest that is it is bare metal u go with self eaching first then filler then epoxy Many epoxy primers CAN NOT go over etch primer. Plus you should never apply filler on top of etch primer. 2K is typically known as urethane primer or a primer used for block sanding...Eric | | | | | Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,644 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,644 | you should never apply filler on top of etch primer. Learned that one the hard way. | | | | | Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 169 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 169 | Let me guess, the filler came loose, maybe even some rust underneath.
The chemicals in the filler's hardner attack the etch primer causing the bond to weaken gravely. | | | | | Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 413 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 413 | Newbie question.....what is 2k? 2K is 2 part. | | | | | Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,644 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,644 | Let me guess, the filler came loose, maybe even some rust underneath. The chemicals in the filler's hardner attack the etch primer causing the bond to weaken gravely. No doubt about it, you know your stuff. | | | | | Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 24 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 24 | what's best for cleaning/preping after the body filler is on and ready to be primired | | | | | Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 145 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 145 | I'm not sure what the best is, but I used a lot of air blowing things off, and a tack rag. I didn't want to use anything with moisture on filler, because I was thinking it would absorb and hold the moisture.
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| | | | | Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,644 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,644 | what's best for cleaning/preping after the body filler is on and ready to be primired After blowing off all dust wipe down with a tac cloth then use a solvent cleaner designed just for that purpose and available at any auto paint store. If you want, a last minute once-over with a tac cloth wouldn't hurt for primer but is definitely best just prior to finish painting. | | | | | Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 24 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 24 | thx for the info guys,much appreciated! | | | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,997 Big Bolt Forum Co-moderator | | Big Bolt Forum Co-moderator Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,997 |
After blowing off all dust wipe down with a tac cloth then use a solvent cleaner designed just for that purpose and available at any auto paint store. If you want, a last minute once-over with a tac cloth wouldn't hurt for primer but is definitely best just prior to finish painting. [/quote]
Is that solvent cleaner the "wax and grease remover". Or is there some other type of prep?
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin
When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton | | | | | Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 169 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 169 | Yes a solvent cleaner is wax and grease remover like PPG's DX330 or you can use the water based DX103.
I use water borne cleaner. | | |
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