The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1959 GMC 860

Great information Crenwelge! Sorry I didn't get back sooner. Had a marathon 2 days at work, 29 hrs.
I did a quick search and found these drive ratios for my trans,
5.71, 3.00, 1.78, 1.00, 0.85.

I plan to go by the parts house after the holiday and see what they can do for me on the spring brakes. I also plan on using rubber to the axles but am considering using some plastic on the truck too. Be prepared for more questions when I get to the brakes!! Based on your description on how to plumb the park brake, I take it there is a separte line to the springs from the brake actuator and it is fairly obvious which line goes where on the can?
Thanks to all for your help,
Billy

There are 2 holes in the spring brake unit. The one closest to the plunger is your service brake and gets hooked to the plumbing you have now. The other hole is where the spring brake plumbing goes. You may want to use a quick release valve as a T. The quick release dumps the air when you release the pressure. Otherwise all the air will have to exhaust through the button on the dash. Kind of a quick overview: Air pressure to the service chamber applies the brakes. If there is no air pressure present, the springs apply the brakes for parking or emergency. While driving, you have constant pressure to the spring to keep it compressed so the service brakes can work normally. I wouldn't consider anything but plastic. Diesels vibrate and anything metal will chafe or crack in no time. Be sure to go to a heavy truck or trailer dealer. Someone like NAPA will be clueless as to what you are talking about. Besides, heavy truck dealers always have spring brakes on sale for around $40.

Excellent information, thanks for all your help Crenwelge. I will stop but the parts place next week and see if they have what I need.

What is the deal with the 5th gear ratio I listed above (0.85) is this the overdrive ratio I need??

Billy

Speeds and ratios can be figured here
http://www.onlineconversion.com/bigger_tires.htm
0.85 OD ratio is better than none, and in many cases better than faster ones if the rest of the system works out to give you the road speed you like. Having a mild OD like that makes for an easy and often used shift between direct and OD when hills approach, and you can then keep the same road speed but bump the engine RPM up to crest the hill.

Also check parts and prices with Randal at Central Truck and Trailer in Hagerstown 301-797-1995.

Grigg

Since a Diesel of that era had only a 300 rpm operating range, anything more than a 15% split in your higher gears will make it unroadable. That is you could never upshift on level ground. you would have to wait for a downgrade to upshift. For example, if you run it up to 2100 and try to go to overdrive theoretically you would come in at 1800 on an upshift which is the absolute lowest rpm you can demand power from engines of that era. This is why governors were usually set at 2300 because you will loose at least 100 rpm in the shift due to wind drag and rolling resistance... even more on a slight incline. The 5 speeds with a bigger gap between 4th and 5th were designed for what we called a working 5th. The 2 speed axle was closer ratio. The upshift sequence was 4th low axle, 5th low axle, then back to 4th high axle and then 5th high axle. There is much more flexibility in gasoline engines as far as gears go than Diesels. If you look at the torque curves of today's Diesel engines and those of 50 years ago, there is no comparison.

Well, its been a while since I posted any updates, and I don't have too much to report today.
Between chores, work, limited "play money" and end of the season truck shows and events, the progress has been slow.
I haven't done anything with the brakes or made any changes to the rear (which, after all the expert advice, I will probably leave things as is for now) but eventually will.
I did get much of the chrome done and out of the way

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2186727920083734483UNkIRZ

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2894077230083734483vqdLDG

and, thanks to President Cosmo, scored a nos Unity Spotlight
to fill the holes in the truck where one obviously once was

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2411486570083734483peUEJl

I mounted the clearance lights

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2050534860083734483BeTrRp

A couple of things that have been holding up progress are a nice compressor and a sand blast cabinet. I have been scowering the web and found a couple of really good deals. I picked up a 7.5 hp, 80 gallon Champion compressor with less than 2 weeks worth of use for $1000.00. I also found a model 960 limited addtion Skat blast cabinet with extra gloves, sifter, hepafilter vac, extra screen cover, tips, and 3 boxes of sand etc. for 500.00. This thing still has paint on the mesh inside. Both were Craigslist deals. I just need to finish wiring the compressor and running my air lines and I have nothing holding me back....except time and cash!

John Milliman and I recently took my truck(frame and engine anyway), behind his 9500 up to PA to Leid Diesel Service to have both trucks worked on. These guys are friends of Griggs and they are Detroit specialists. They do great work and per Griggs reccomendation, I had the injectors replaced and the fuel rod.
They set everything up and we all were pleased with how it was running when they were done. That was one of the big things holding me back from setting the cab back on the frame so that should happen soon.

I have also been working on the door seals, and glass channels. I am having a big problem with the vent window rubber but will post in Paint and Body for help with that.

There is probably more but I guess thats enough for now.

Billy

Looks great Billy! Hurry up and get it done so I can cruise in it.

ODSS members- I officially call "Shotgun" for all future rides in the 860. Billy- Please print this thread, laminate it and post it in the cab for future reference.

George

Dang it ... I hate when he gets the jump on us like that.

Well, you go right ahead and go joyriding with Billy all you want, George. While you're off doing that, guess what the rest of us are gonna be doing? Sweet dreams...

(Yeah buddy!! Mud bog, here we come!!!)

Semper Fi,
John

Wow, that chrome grille is to die for. A grill like that is what lured me into buying a used GMC almost 47 years ago.

Bog to your heart's content Brother Milliman. Wash it when you're done and put it back in the barn... I've got eternal SHOTGUN! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

George "Shotgunner" V.O.

John, shouldn't that be Mud SOG?

You got shotgun George. I will let you know that there will be a nice springy seat for you when the time comes. I plan on crusing in a little comfort when the day finally comes.

Crenwelge, I too love the grill chromed and can't wait until the day comes to mount it on the truck. I don't know if there were chrome grills on the 860's from factory but I had to do it. Plus the intent is for this truck to be similar in appearence to my Chevrolet, which I was sold on when I saw that art deco grill for the first time.

Billy

George -- Wash it??? Yeah right. Uh huh. Whatever. While you're joyriding, we'll be ... well, best you not dwell on it ...

Crenwelge -- the pictures don't do it justice. The chrome work is spectacular and the truck will be every bit as breathtaking as his '46 is. Makes me want to go throw rocks at everything I own (including Peggy's '98 Sebring...) as well as at everything Brother NAPCOMan owns... (except his F-350 dumptruck -- I have a lot of respect for that truck)

Billy --- That's a pretty low blow. Leave SOG out of this.

Well, what are you mud boggin in??
I guess I missed something here..

"Makes me want to go throw rocks at everything I own (including Peggy's '98 Sebring...) as well as at everything Brother NAPCOMan owns..."

John... alway's hatin' on my stuff.

Thanks Billy.

George

Billy;
Nice chrome work, I won't even ask about price........
If you need air brake parts, specifically, new rubber diaphrams, I might be able to help, if you are keeping your orginal chambers. I was able to find new diaphrams for my trucks. Just PM me.

Brother Milliman, I think there is a Beck's with your name on it somewhere, at least the can is green (envious) and it will help you with your feelings towards Brother George.

Johnny G

Billy, Billy, Billy ...

*You* are going to be joy riding around with George, so what the rest of *us* will be mud bogging in is of no concern to you or George. Let us merely say that it is 4-wheel drive, has plenty of seats in it, has been meticulously restored and is kept in a trailer in an unnamed location in the Shenandoah Valley ...

Roads?? Where we're going, we don't need roads ....

hehehehehehe

Johnny G -- Have I got a deal for *you* -- check your PMs in a moment.

Johnny M

FARMDOG

Its been a long time since I updated this thread, partly due to Webshots dumping all my albums but here are some pictures of the GMC project. I haven't gotten around to labeling them yet.
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Marlowcoal/library/1959%20GMC%20860

Look'in good Bill !

Mighty fine example of an 860,"back in the day". In my opinion,the best-lookin'"Jimmy",of them ALL! But,THE biggest,baddest,and loudest truck,of my childhood,was an 860,not sure of the exact year. Straight-truck,with 14" "sleeper,26' grain body,pulling a 50' "pup"! The tongue was longer than the trailer!! Another 860 resided on a farm,(back in the '70's) He had a factory Napco(?)860! He welded tractor wheels/tires,to the "Dayton" hubs! Unfortunately,he decided to cut the fenders off,and fabricate a pair,similar to the C.C.K.W. He used it to haul a field tanker,so it got a lot of hard use. It was fun to watch that truck in action,as well. Keep up the great work,and THANKS for the up-date!!

So where did the dogleg air ride rear come from? Everyone except Freightliner used something similar from the mid 80's until a little after 2000. Are you using the original rear or what was on the suspension?

Willy, this is the truck that got me into this this project.
Its a fellow ATHS chapter members.
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Marlowcoal/media/1959%20GMC%20860/050_zps4179a601.jpg.html

Ken, its a Hendrickson out of a late model Mack. Since the original rear had a round tube, without some fabrication it would not work. Also the brake chambers would have had to be reworked some how and put on the front side of the axle.
I need to figure out the clutch linkage on the new road ranger that is going in it, then the cab goes on and finally I should make some real progress.

I'd call the suspension and transmission swap some "real progress"

looking better and better!

Keep it up Billy. Looking awesome!!

Thanks,Billy!! Bob and Moe Stone did a GREAT job on their 860,as well! Great father and son project! I agree with Grigg-you're doing a FINE JOB!! A lot more work than pic's can describe! THANK-YOU!!

That's moving along quite nice, thanks for sharing!

Thanks Jeff and the others who have posted encouraging words.
This project has taken a lot longer than I ever anticipated, especially considering there was a bunch of work done to the truck before I got it. The '46 took less time and it was a frame off, ground up, first time ever project for me??
But I am once again at a stall point on this one. Turns out the hubs on the rear I purchased are for 24.5 wheels, not the 22.5 powder coated wheels I have sitting in the shop (seems the guy I purchased the rear from didn't hear me tell him what size wheel I was using any of the dozen times I told him in the course of our transaction).
Not a very dignified way to bring him home from the mechanics shop...
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Marlowcoal/media/1959%20GMC%20860/IMG_0629_zpsf99e8a94.jpg.html

http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Marlowcoal/media/1959%20GMC%20860/IMG_0631_zpsc2797155.jpg.html

I am working finding the correct hubs, drums and bearings.
I am going to see this thing through, one way or another.

Everything looks good. Thats a bummer that the hubs are for 22" wheels instead of 20". And I think that even though Mack uses the same bearings as everyone else, I think they are configured differently because mack always had to be different. I ran spokes on the drive and Budd on the steering axle for about 30 years. I have been selling a lot of scrap, but I might have some Mack spoke hubs. I bought some Mack cutoffs just for the 3.90 rears. I can pull a hub and see if I have a hub that will fit the Mack wheel ends. The cutoffs I bought were around 2005 and they have the Hendrickson air ride.

Back when I drove a 550, I always dreamed of owning and 860 because it used the same grille as my 550 with bigger butterfly hoods and a fat cab. But When I realized I could blow them off the road with my gas 550, I decided on an International with a Cummins. But the more I look at this thing, the more I wouldn't mind having one around my place.

Thanks Ken. The guy I bought the cut-off from is working with me so far. He says he will give me the parts I need to correct the issue but I am nervously optimistic. If this fails I will be in touch. The other problem is he is 6 hrs away. He says he has a buddy that comes my way regularly that could bring me the parts I need but all this adds up to more waiting......Plus,the truck is sitting on the trailer with a tarp over it for now, something else I am not happy about. I need to get it into the shop soon.

There was a tandem axle 860 for sale recently in recently in Ohio. Looked to be in pretty nice condition. I think you definitely need one in your collection!

It's been a long time since I updated this thread and I don’t have too much in the way of pictures to support where I am right now.

I did end up getting the correct hubs. The next set that were delivered had cracks in them. He sent them to the Winchester show in September. I wasn't able to be there but I had John M and Grigg there to check them out. They were concerned about some cracking in the ends of the spokes and their overall rusty condition so I passed on that set. At this point I wasn't sure if the guy I was dealing with would have any interest in making sure I got the parts I needed after everything that had happened but to make a long story short, he was headed to Carlisle PA the following week and said he had another set for me if I could meet him. I met him in Hagerstown Md where he delivered a nice set of 5 spoke hubs like I originally wanted.

The next dilemma was the drums on the truck (attached to the 6 spoke hubs) were in much better shape than the ones that came with the correct 5 spoke hubs.
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...684_zps71bebb7b.jpg.html?sort=6&o=88
They were the same size and would fit the 5 spoke hubs so I decided to swap them. Without big air tools this job was a challenge. All I have is a regular duty ½ impact. I used a lot of PB and some big cheaters to get all 4 hub assemblies apart. A buddy of mine sand blasted the 5 spoke hubs, hit them with some rattle can primer for now and then I bolted them up to the good drums.
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...C5_zps8sjvs4z4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=128
I installed all knew bearings and races and finally got the hubs and drums back on the truck, the wheels back on and the truck back on the ground.
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...ge_zps2477c7ee.jpg.html?sort=6&o=102
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...ge_zps6209fac8.jpg.html?sort=6&o=103

Just in time too because I needed the trailer to attend the Devils Backbone Run.
http://s160.photobucket.com/user/stovebltr/slideshow/ODSS/2013/Devils%20Backbone%202013

Since then I have continued working on small stuff while I have been saving my pennies to tackle the next big step. I finally found the period correct Bendix Westinghouse air horns for the truck that are in good shape. I had purchased two other sets in the past thinking I could just have the horns re-chromed. I sent the better of the two sets to the chrome only to be told that it would cost $125.00 ea to repair and chrome! That was too much money and patience paid off because I found a nice set about 20 minutes from home.

I have dabbled with the interior and made a few panels to go in the rear of the cab. I still need to figure out what I am going to do for a head liner.
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...DA_zpsphflmgrd.jpg.html?sort=6&o=111
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...FE_zpscirad3lv.jpg.html?sort=6&o=110


I also fabricated a new top for the battery box.

Another semi major hurtle was getting the truck back up to Leid Diesel in PA to have the Jake brakes put on. I wanted to get this done before the cab goes back simply because it would be a whole lot easier to do work on cab-less, so I loaded it up again in the middle of January and got that done.
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...4549_zpsln6vynav.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...BF7D_zpscuvw6w4k.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Since the snow gods have been pretty good to me so far this season and the old plow truck has held together without costing me a ton of money (knock, knock, knock) I have managed to put a little away in the "860" account. Last weekend I took the truck back to the shop where the cut off was done to have the new clutch and transmission installed. The big part of this is having changing from a push clutch to a pull clutch. They have an excellent fabricator there and said it would be not problem working all that out. I hope to have it back in a week or so. I have a little more paint work to do but I think I will finally be ready to set the cab back on the frame.

Then there is: air lines, Wiring harness, Headliner, Seats, seat belts, Radiator hose end fabrication?
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...001_zps94098f2b.jpg.html?sort=6&o=21
http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...004_zps2633e0bd.jpg.html?sort=6&o=22

Fuel tanks, not sure what I am going to do with them yet, fifth wheel, etc.

And the list goes on.
Thats all for now. Hope to have a few more pictures and updates soon.

Thanks a LOT, Marlow ... Renews my faith after this week's events. Or at least takes my mind off events while I sit out here on the ledge ...

Beautiful job you are doing there. I really liked whatever that stuff was you are fitting to the cab walls. Looks very neat and proessional.

Tell us again about the valve cover ... I forgot the story behind that.

I'm going out to the pole barn to throw rocks at my truck, now...

That thing is really starting to take shape. I have never been around 860 series very much just because there weren't many of them. I do remember a small fleet of them near San Antonio. A small family operated business was crushing limestone for road base and had some 860s. I think they pulled cable dumps. The business mushroomed during the 60's Interstate building and made multi-millionaires out of the business.

Is that a hydraulic slave cylinder on the outside of the frame to operate the clutch. I have never seen anything quite like it. I am really looking forward to seeing more progress.

When you first posted that all you had was a 1/2" impact, my first thought was, how does he do it? But then when I think back, the first 10 years I owned trucks all I had was a Snap On L710 ratchet and a Sears 18" breaker. When I did get my first impact, I was too dumb to know that you have to be careful when you hold a nut inside a frame channel and hit the bolt with an impact. My first experience with rattling a bolt off, I almost lost some fingers inside the frame channel. It is amazing what a person can do with simple tools when thats all you have.

JM, I bought the valve cover from Timothy at Leids when I started buying all the parts and pieces to put Jakes on the truck. Timothy said it needed a little work so I bought it and sent it to Grigg to work some magic on it. As you can tell he did an amazing job. I had a shot from the inside but cant find it but from the outside, you could not tell where the repair was made. http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/M...092_zps05b3ae14.jpg.html?sort=6&o=54

Don't be throwing rocks at ol Heavy G. Hes done pretty good by both of us!

Ken, Yes hydraulic slave mounted to the side of the old spicer 5speed.
Hey, I just use the tools I have to do the job most of the time. The project did cost me a some pretty beat up wrenches and a socket that needed replacing by the end of it but it was worth it knowing I got her done by myself.

Billy ... I'm just frustrated and whiney... I'll get over it ...

That valve cover ... Beautiful. Chroming it would only denegrate it. Alpine green rocks.

I read your update yesterday and looked at all the pics and didn't have words to reply with....just beautiful work! So, I looked at them again today, and it's about the same...no words! I really get a workout when I need pull a drum on one of my 1.5 tons. I see all the heavy heavy parts you are working with and I'm really impressed! What a great investment on a truck that will last for generations to come! Can't wait to see it.

Billy,

Glad to see you're getting back into it...if you keep at it we may both finish at the same time!

Mike B

Great job,Mr. Marlow!! You've made A LOT of progress,since your last post!! Your update is like a belated Christmas present!! THANK-YOU!!

Thank you guys. You are too kind. After all, I'm just a rookie bumbling along through this project with hopes that it will all work out in the end.
So far so good except for the usual-taking too long and spending too much money!

Billy;

Are you keeping the wedge brakes or going to S cams. I still have the diaphragms (NOS) if you decide to keep the original cans. My original brakes will put you thru the windshield if you are not gentle on the pedal. Nice work as always, as I would not expect anything less from you as you have set the bar high

John G

Hey John, going with maxi's. Way too late to worry about originality at this point! But thanks for the heads up.