The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts GM versus Ford Trans Bolt Pattern: Early Clark

I have a 1948 GMC 3 ton with a Clark five speed crash box. I am collecting parts to rebuild this trans in the near future. I prefer to have a spare trans to rebuild, ready to bolt in during restoration.

A boy if offering me a Clark out of a 1948 Ford COE, says a "352 Mercury" bellhousing. Not familiar with those. No photographs just yet, early negotiation stage, working on getting my ducks lined up, trying to get the boy to read numbers off the transmission tag.

I am sure the input shaft will be different but I have a spare GM input shaft and bearing retainer cover for my 202V Clark trans. Not so sure about a Ford bellhousing bolt pattern for an old Clark. I have a couple of manuals on this Clark but, as expected, no mention of the bellhousing bolt pattern; lot of nice diagrams, rebuild instructions and all, but no distinction on brand name differences.

I am researching, have been for over a year, not much of anything out there on these old crash boxes, 202V - 205V era. I need to decide if to buy the boy's trans as a bolt-in replacement or buy simply to salvage internal parts as needed, if at all. This will determine a price to pay.

Any of you know if Clark used one bellhousing bolt pattern for all brands or if the bellhousing bolt pattern is different between GM, Ford, Dodge and the rest?

I would surely appreciate your information or wild guesses, maybe some related examples on this topic.

Thanks, Billyray

You are going about this all wrong Billyray. I always buy parts and THEN do the research. Unfortunately I do not have any answers for you on this one.

FriedGreenTmater quips, "You are going about this all wrong Billyray. I always buy parts and THEN do the research."

Ha! Ha! I learned to stop doing that about 20 years back. Each time I spent our hard earned egg money on parts which did not fit, my girl would take a stick to my head. Still have knots on my head 20 years later, hurt now and then during cold weather.

These days, she is a bit more mellow, only takes her kitchen spatula to my head. Steel spatula, though.

First bit of information I find is really bugging me. Looks the 352 Ford engine was not manufactured until 1958 and forward:

"The Ford FE engine was a Ford V8 engine used in vehicles sold in the North American market between 1958 and 1976. It was intended to fill the need for a medium-range displacement engine...."

1958 would have this one of the "big" Clark transmissions, 250 series and forward. Didn't do my research, a bit of a lapse, bought one of those big ones, sure doesn't fit, way different.

Dragged my girl up to the high desert in my old rust bucket truck to buy the trans, took a look, "Won't fit but I promised the boy I would buy, have to keep my word." She instantly started running around out there in the desert looking for a stick to use on my head. With luck, not much in the line of sticks out in a desert. Only paid a $100 but she still thinks that is a lot of money even for today. She is always right.

Not sure now if this boy with the trans knows what he has. Says a 1948 cab-over, but this Ford 352 engine he talks about was not built for another ten years.

I probably should hide my girl's spatula before buying this one.

Billyray

The twenty third edition of the Hollander indicates that GMC used a 202V or a 204VO. It doesn't list anything that that interchanges with Ford. A 5 speed with a special equipment for Ford for those years.

crenwelge adds info, "The twenty third edition of the Hollander indicates that GMC used a 202V or a 204VO. It doesn't list anything that that interchanges with Ford."

Yeah, this is what I suspect. I am becoming more sure Clark (now Fuller) made transmissions specific to brand like GMC and Ford. Your Hollander reference confirms this. I am thinking I should pass on this Clark transmission, too many "things" wrong about this.

I found out International Harvester and Ford shared the same bellhousing bolt pattern but different input shaft lengths. In keeping with your Hollander look-up, nothing about a GMC - Ford crossover.

My GMC has the 202V you mention. Nice trans, little bigger than an SM420, no syncros, nice spread on the gears, takes some practice to learn to shift the trans without a clutch, really crazy shift pattern.

Thanks, crenwelge, you helped me to make a decision to pass on whatever Clark this boy has, probably a much later Ford model.

Billray

crenwelge, found a new reprint of your 23rd Hollander for $59.00 on Ebay, and an original 24th edition currently at $20.00 on Ebay. I will buy one of those.

You have moved me from a Clark to a Hollander. My girl will be happy I am doing better research, maybe won't knot my head so often.

Billyray

"352 mercury"...is this like chevy-gmc engine differences ? (Inline 6 vs v6) maybe ford is different than merc in those days on some of them....?

Nope, Ford and Mercury big block engines were identical- - - -332, 352, 390, 406, and 427 engines had almost identical exterior dimensions. In 1948, there would have been only two engines available, a 100 HP 239 cubic inch flathead V-8, and a flathead 6-cylinder of about 215 cubic inches, I believe. Some of the big trucks used a Lincoln flathead V-8 of considerably larger displacement than the Ford, but I think those engines were in the F-8 big rigs only.
Jerry

Hotrod Lincoln writes, "In 1948...two engines available, a 100 HP 239 cubic inch flathead V-8, and a flathead 6-cylinder of about 215 cubic inches...."

Yep, sure enough. I'm not all this smart about Fords but I know flatheads were the rage back then. I was still making peanut butter in my diapers during the Forties flathead days. Boy tells me a Clark trans in a 1948 Ford COE, I think, "Well, might work." Then he tells me about a 352 Mercury bellhousing, I think, "Now that doesn't sound right."

I decided to come over here to pick brains of some old farts like me.

Probably the boy has an old truck with a much newer drivetrain, if you think Fifties and Sixties is new and modern, like I do. Anything newer than Eighties I think to be some type of alien technology swiped from Alturus 5 out in the Gamma Sector. This would explain those Toyota cars and their bad attitude.

Billyray

Just looked it up- - - - -the Lincoln flathead used in the 48-51 model big rigs had a 337 cubic inch displacement, almost 100 cubic inches bigger than the Ford engines.
Jerry

And in 52 they came out with a 279 and a 317 overhead valve engine. By 1958 they had v8 engines up to 534 cu. in. I had a yard truck with the 534. It took about 5 gallons of gas to build up air pressure.

crenwelge writes, "...52 they came out with a 279 and a 317 overhead valve engine...1958 they had v8 engines up to 534 cu. in."

Sure pays to know a little bit about the history of engines and about the different brands of engines. A difference which confuses a lot of novices is knowing a 216 from a 235 Chevy. Most of us here would figure this out blindfolded. Small block Chevies are a problem, difficult to spot differences after the 265 engine.

Transmissions and drive axles are more difficult to sort out.

These modern cars, I look under a hood and keep my mouth shut. I need to look for awhile just to figure out what part is the engine, even then I am not sure. I have never seen so much stuff squeezed into such a small area.

You boys know when all of us die, we will take with us almost all knowledge about classic cars and trucks. There will come a day our classics will only be seen in museums.

...and you always thought gasoline would never cost more than 50 cents a gallon.

Thank you all for helping me sort out this Clark trans thing.

Billyray

That 534 was actually an International engine. Ford, and I believe, Dodge offered it as an option in their biggest over-the-road rigs.
Jerry

The International appeared in 56 as a 549 in their V220 series truck and was quite popular. It was International's own engine. The largest gas burner I remember in a Dodge was their own 413. Later on they offered a cabover Diesel and a conventional Diesel. I think all they offered was Cummins. 1975 was about their last entry in the class 8 Diesel market.