The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot '60-'66 Trucks 1960 Apache Short bed FRAME OPTIONS?...newby

Hello everyone,
Im brand new to Stovebolt. I came across it and have been glued to it since!
My Project; 1960 Chevy Short Bed Step Side Apache 10
This truck originaly belonged to my Great Grandpa! It was then passed on to my Grandpa, to my dad... and now me. That makes it a 4th Generation Apache !! It is a I6 4 speed and hasnt run for about 15 years. Since aquiring the truck I have been torn between keeping the stock drive train or swapping in a 327. My dad built the the 327 7 years ago and has since passed away...If I go that route, Im considering a 700R4 because I would like overdrive! I would also like power steering and possibly disc brakes so I have also considered finding a donor car or truck with the same wheel base to make it safer and more enjoyable at higher speeds. Hope that idea doesnt stike too many nerves. Basically I am trying to decide how to go about my build; Original or modified???
She is pretty ruff looking but my first priority is getting her driving down the road again. Any advice or suggestions on my drivtrain appreciated!! Im leaning towards a newer model short bed frame with power steering and a 700R4. If I go that route any model suggestions?

Thanks,
Jerad

Hey! Welcome to Stovebolt! I used early classic dropped spindles on mine then replaced the rear end with a 72 giving me 5on 5 bolt pattern. As the engine and tranny goes unless you are doing alot of highway use overdrive to me anyway is not necessary. But the V8s are easier to go faster in,but the 6 in our trucks were hard to tear up.Do it how you wish it's your ideas that make it yours. Good luck!

Where in Ks. are you?

Thanks for the welcome!
I live in Burlington, KS. I looked at yours...nice! I have heard that the 6 cylinders run forever. Mine was parked at 96,000 on the money. My Grandpa said it did run when he parked it but was fouling plugs often. Im looking to achive a similar stance and style to your truck. My dad built a mild 327 thats just sitting in a 76' we have with a bad tranny so its tempting to swap it.
My 60' does have the 4 speed. I dont know how common that is but Im thinking of swapping it for a auto for sure if I go with the 327. I will keep the 4 on the floor if I keep the 6. Im also curious about power steering and the easiest way to get it. Thats why I was considering going with a late model frame with better brakes and power steering?? I have so many ideas going on right now Im just gonna stop rambling on.. Well thanks for the welcome and I hope to stay in touch. I need all the advice I can get.

Take care,
Jerad

Just out of curiousity. Do you know how to post a profile picture?

Thx

Welcome from the Northwest. Nothing better than having a truck with family history, that’s great. It’s really important to take some time and assess what you want the truck to be when it’s done – before you start changing or buying things. Consider that you’re going to have this truck the rest of your life, so you’ve got a bit of time to form a plan. Starts and stops and changes in direction get really expensive and can lead to disenchantment with the project.

There are advantages to both drive trains, depending on how you want to enjoy the truck. It’s been said a zillion times, but they really are only original once. If there’s a consideration for keeping it stock, decide early. Once that’s left behind, there’s no going back. Personally I’ve never been much of a pure restoration enthusiast. If I had the money to buy anything from the 60’s new, the first thing I would have done it put on mag wheels, a custom steering wheel, etc. I never found new cars all that interesting unless they were “fixed up”.

The six and 4 speed will last forever and pull tree stumps, but they’re not all that great on mileage or speed. A passenger car transmission can make it more enjoyable with or without the six, but there’s so many variables to consider such as tire size, rear axle ratio, engine torque, and how you intend to use the truck. One advantage of the six is most get replaced with a V8, so when a six shows up at a rod run, they always draw a crowd especially with split pipes and multiple carbs. A small block Chevy on the other hand is dirt cheap with tons of speed parts available on a budget. And if your dad built the 327, that scores a lot of points.

Unless you’re fairly experienced in rodding or restoring, I’d recommend against a later frame swap. It’s very challenging even for those experienced with the modifications needed – like relocating body mounts, etc. It’s much easier to swap a later front suspension onto your existing frame. Here’s a thread that covers suspension and disc brake options:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=367260

For the rear end you can swap in a later axle or simply have your rear axles redrilled and use later 5x5 brake drums.

Sorry no help on the photo question. I’ve been on this site for over a year, but still haven’t figured out how to post a profile pic either. Hopefully somebody else knows how.

Welcome to the Stovebolt 327Apache. This is the place to be for good information on your '60 Chevy Apache.

Well stated Markeb.

My first suggestion is to sit down and loosely organize your thoughts/plans on paper. By doing so, you can focus on the most important elements first, which are the mechanicals, followed by creature comforts, aesthetics, etc. In such an undertaking, I always suggest tackling tasks, based on your available money, time and skills, so you can enjoy the truck, during the process of making it your dream ride.

So many times, an ill-conceived, ambitious plan, is derailed due to lack of planning, funds, time, knowledge, tools, space or a combination of "all of the above". To keep your project from falling into grandiose-plan purgatory, have a plan and stay on task. If you are able to drive, use and enjoy your truck during the process, the enthusiam and ambition level will remain high and you will get the project done in a timely fashion and your goals will be met, in the process.

In closing, good luck with your truck and keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks everyone for your input!
Its tuff because I have already started into the 6 cylinder, rebuilt the carb and blasted and painted the original rims,then wrapped them in new goodyears. If I stick with the original frame I will modify the front end...any donor suggestions? If I decide to change directions with the drivetrain I can always put the 327 in it and decide on trans.. speaking of which I would still like to ad powersteering and put in an automatic tranny for cruising (dont get me wrong, I love shifting gears...but I prefer a muscle car over a granny 4 speed truck).
Any suggestions on an automatic trans that would bolt up to the 6 cylinder for the time being and could also work if I decide to go with the 327 later on? I would like OD but dont "need" it.

Just out of curiousity with the later model frame option. I found a 77' Short bed locally with everything "except" the engine...which I have. Its $750 and may be cheaper than the first option. I do have some older friends with fabricating experience! It would include better brakes, a 12 bolt rear, and a 350 trans, and the power steering I really want among alot of other extras. Im wondering if anyone has any reason this truck would NOT be a good donor if I go that direction?? The kicker is the truck has a really nice body which I would sell and make most of my money back!

Im a bit scatter brained at the moment because this project consumes my thoughts everyday Im ready to get this project DRIVING! I also have the funds to do it now as I just sold my 58' Cadillac and want to put every dime towards the Apache. So I need to decide and buy what I need now before I blow it!
I posted a link to the donor truck below if that helps.......

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/1595816721.html

Pro's a Con's to everything greatly appreciated. This is my first big project and Im ready to dive in. I just want to do it right!

Thanks,
Jerad

Welcome to stovebolt! Hey I got the next year same truck, If you need any help that I can help with let me know, I have learned tons of stuff on here and these guys are the best!

Nice to see another 60 chev reserected. I have found out with the process of restoring a truck it is easier when you know what part you need instead of trying to find something that might work off of a newer truck and finding out as you install it it is alot more harder to install than you thought, but ultimatly the decision is yours.Have fun.

A couple of guys on here are real diplomats. They have nicely stated that getting too crazy with your plans will end up in another eBay basket case. I'll be more blunt. Have you actually even driven the truck? The 1960 front end is a high tech front end from GM which rides nicely if properly maintained. The steering on a 1960 shortbox Chevy is some of the lightest and easiest you will ever find. Don't listen to your friends, whom i'm sure have "done it all", nor the magazines which want to sell you parts. I say keep the front end, fix it properly, do the brakes, get the engine running and drive it. That's the absolute cheapest start you can have. THEN, when you want to "improve" then you can swap in the 327. And a different transmission. (you do know that you can have overdrive without having an automatic, right? Think T-5 or a Borg Warner OD on an original 3 on the tree)
My advice is to SLOWWWWWWWWWW down, get a handle on actually getting the truck into a driveable, safe condition and then make modifications as necessary, and as funds allow.

Thanks K10....I do need to slow down. Im obsessed with this truck right now and want to get it going while I have the funds. It doesnt take long for funds to dwindle away! Your the first to suggest the 60' Front end is good. Everyone else suggested swapping it. I have about 2 grand to put into my Apache and want to stetch it as far as I can mechanically. I simply wanted power steering for comfort. To answer your question, no I have never driven it, so i dont know how it steers. It has been parked since I was a kid. Im now 26 with a wife and kid and want to tackle this asap while the funds are available. I do know that manual OD's are available but was suggested the 700r4 for fuel mileage and Hwy (I do plan on quite a bit of hwy driving)
I will try to slow down and finish rebuilding the 235 and go from there. Any suggestions on the oil bath? Keep it or swap it?? Thats a new one to me.. Thanks again everyone! I will update as I go and check the site often. Hope to put her in the gallery once shes road worthy. There is alot of history behind her I will elaborate on later.....

Thanks,
Jerad

A lot of people are still of the mentality that if it's old it can't be any good. Mustang II front ends are "required" for any self respecting hot rod. That's BS. There's 1/2 of your budget right there in the front end swap.
So keep your money in the bank and do brakes first and foremost. Then front end bushings, etc. Use a shop manual to help with that stuff. And all the while, work on getting that 6 cylinder singing sweet. I'll bet that you have a pretty high rear gear ratio in the truck now. Maybe a 3.36 or 3.73. Odds are against a 4.11 in your truck. I think you might be pretty pleased with how well the truck would actually do once it's up and running.
You should get yourself an Assembly Manual for 60-66 and the Service Manuals as well. EBay will have them for varying prices.
The oil bath air cleaner is very effective-as with anything else on this truck-when properly maintained.

Thanks for the advice. One unexpected bonus was the original 1960 Manual in the glove box...among other paper work that field mice had destroyed. For some reason they destroyed everything EXCEPT the original manual which is perfectly intact! They must not of liked that "flavor" of paper!

Good words K10

I agree with K10. The front ends on your 1960 is different from other years too. Be careful when changing it. The torsion bar front end (I think) will make a good driver. I have one and am going to keep the torsion bar suspension. I'm going to upgrade the brakes to disc and dual master and go with an auto transmission too. The lower ball joints are expensive parts to replace, so be aware of that.

Colletsbro has a running add here in Stovebolt.com for early 60s parts.

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...lat&Number=507297&gonew=1#UNREAD

He can get you all the parts you need for your truck to convert it to a V8. He's a good guy to deal with too.

Here is a site that I always get my old car/truck manuals.

www.gregsonline.com

Good luck and keep us up to date on your truck project. You can't find a better site than Stovebolt.com for answers to your questions. Stovebolt.com "IS" the real knowledge base for Chevrolet trucks.

Welcome to the Stovebolt family. We all like each other here too. Well most of us that is.

well stated k10. i certainly agree, for him in his situation i believe he needs to slow down and drive it as well. take more time and get aquainted with the truck and what it/he REALLY needs/ can afford/ can accomplish.

I have the 60. I like the front suspension. it rides very nice for it's age. Alot of people don't care for it, I can't afford to change it. I have the 6 w/ 4 granny. Runs strong pushing it very hard to do 70 mph. I have done very little to this truck due to $$. I do drive it often,locally when the sun is shining!!I have the stepside w/spare tire cut out fender. I'm told all the time how to get a reg. fender. I'm not a purist, but they don't make that truck w/ side spare mount anymore. People have replaced the ugly hoods and fenders.I won't.Power steering would be o.k. but not a necessity, I would rather have all new window seals etc. to quiet the ride, very noisy and annoying after 30 or 40 minutes of driving.It's fun to have. I learned to drive on Dad's 64 back in 76. The inside of these trucks Have a distinct smell, every time I climb in it reminds me of Dad's. I would'nt change that for anything. If you go to car shows here in CA. the 6 cyl. is almost non exist, swapped out for 8's. I'm trying to keep the six. Good luck drive it!!

Thanks Ken, I also love the 60' hood and spare tire fender. My hood is pretty ruff. I would think 60' hoods would be easy to find since so many were replaced with "better looking" later model hoods. I have had a hard time finding another one though in nice shape.

If I remember correctly, the 1960-61 hoods were replaced after accidents with the later style hoods because there weren't a lot of them reproduced for parts...and people replaced them with later style because they looked "better".

I know that this is an old thread but I wanted to chime in.

My '60 has the original front suspension and it drives and handles very well. Very easy stearing and handles the bumps good. The only thing I plan to do is an anti-sway bar for the body roll around corners.

I wouldn't change out the front suspension unless your vision is for a lowered hot rod. If I were you, I would get the engine running well and give it a try!

The others on this thread are saying the same thing and these guys know their stuff. Remember, we are not talking about a straight axle here. Personially, I have owned over 70 vehicles in my life, mostly trucks, and my '60 is one of the best driving old trucks I have owned.

Thanks Iron Clad (and everyone else).
I oficially sold my 58' Pink Cadillac today and have the dough to dive in now. My engine work has already begun and I am going to run the strait 6 until I can afford to rebuild a 327 I have. Thanks to everyones input Im going to feel out my front end and hopefully keep it stock (lowering the truck a little has crossed my mind) but Im not going to worry about that now. 6 weeks till my little girl arrives so the race is on! I appreciate everyones input on the topic and will keep you posted on the progress of my truck. She may look like a beater for a while but I should have her mechanically sound soon! I will take things one step at a time and hopefully be driving her soon.

Jerad