The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 49 COE Brownie Question

My recently acquired 49 COE has a Brownie type Aux. trans installed.

I have yet to bring the truck home, but the curiousity about what type of trans this is is killing me. I've yet to stumble on any factory literature regarding the subject. Also, the tag axle that was added on is causing me to speculate on whether the brownie was retro fitted at that time to add capacity.

It doesn't look like a 5831 to me? Thus far, I haven't found a good enough image of aa Spicer 5531 to to rule that out. The rest of the powertrain is esentially stock, 235, SM420, and a 2-speed axle.

Any help is appreciated. Was an aux trans a factory option? If so what would type would have been used?

All the ones I have seen appear dealer installed or shop installed. The last truck I parted a 1949 6400 was a good example it was a clean installation but nowhere near the work from an assembly line. There is too much hand fitting and bracket work for these to be factory. Factory frames from this era are heavy on rivets and stiffeners these installations are always bolt or weld on and have heavier members than the actual frames.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2228651460102454676jBWaJm

GMC had factory installed auxiliary transmissions, but I doubt that a 49 Chev would be have been a factory installation. It doesn't look like the drag axle was factory either. My guess is that someone built a truck to haul more than it was designed to haul, which was very common. And it was also common, that if your engine was underpowered, you got more gears. Salvage yards were full of wrecked larger trucks, and it was common to buy an auxiliary out of a larger truck and put it in a 2 ton.

Any ideas what type of aux trannies were being installed on the GMCs of the period?

GMC offered a Fuller R-950-C, A Spicer 8031, and a Spicer 6231 in those years. Its kind of hard to tell much with all the dirt, but it looks like the Fuller to me. However, it didn't necessarily have to come out of a GMC. In those days, we went to a salvage yard and looked for an auxiliary box and didn't really came what it came out of. In fact salvage yards usually had them laying in a shed with no reference to what they were removed from.

Look for a tag on the auxiliary, probably on the left side.
My first guess is it is a Watson brand 2 speed. But until you uncover more of it that's just a guess.
This is a Watson direct and over http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2922716010080251109JoUrvp

A Spicer 5531 looks like the 5831 that replaced it, and yours doesn't appear to be either.

I haven't seen enough of the old fullers to know if that's it or not.

Grigg

I don't think Fuller had a PTO opening. I can't tell for the dirt on yours.

From what I've seen the Watson boxes had the shifter against your knee, and if it was a Spicer it was to the right of the main stick, Watsons seemed to be used on the smaller trucks of the 40's and 50's this again is just from what I've seen more so than a spicer untill Spicer absorbed them, took them over or thye went out of bussines I don't remember which, an 8000 series Spicer would be huge under a 2 ton truck and you'd know it was there, hard to tell what that one is as it sits,

If it's not an original installation, and it probably is not in that truck, then location of the shifter is of little value in determining the make of the auxiliary.
You may use that info to help guess, but it is not a definitive answer.
The shifter is only connected by linkage rod(s) and therefore could be mounted most anywhere the installer pleased.

Grigg

Probably isn't an original install, but the shifter is near the drivers knee in this interior shot

The guy I bought it from says it feels like it has two speeds and it appears to have a pto. I'm starting to think it's a Watson. Hopefully I'll have the truck home in the next week or two to check that tag. Really hoping its a direct/over box. Underdrive would be a bummer

I found the truck while searching for a Brownie for my '72 C50 and just had to have it. This is my second AD Bigbolt, but the other found a new home about 10 years ago

We had a 47 GMC 1/1/2 with a Watson non orginal with the lever next to the knee, I'm not sure what but there is some reason that the Watson was on the left side, on the other hand we also had a 53 with a tag axle an electric two spd rear and a 3 spd Spicer and a 302 all factory with the lever on the right side, I understand the linkage but sometimes the brackets don't allow for side to side swaps, I've never seen a Spicer on the right side it would depend on the tree bracket to what side it was mounted, the tree is adaptable to where ever you want but if the adapter bracket was only manufactured one way thats what we're stuck with unless you wanted to make another brkt

Got the truck home and running today.

The brownie is a Watson Model 43, looks just like the one Grigg posted the photo of. It's a 3-speed; has deep low, direct and an OD (around .80-ish)

It drives good, shifts good and works good.

You made a really lucky find in that one.

Good to hear!
Thanks for the update.
Please post some more pictures when you can.

Grigg

The COE has been home for about a year now, but today was the first time I've had it up to highway speeds.

As earlier stated I'm pretty sure at this point the aux trans is an old Watson. It is Direct, a 2:1 low and a Hi OD that runs about 0.85:1.

With the Axle in High, the SM420 in 4th, the 235 humming and the aux trans in OD the Old Girl currently exceeds my excitement threshold with weathered old 8.25x20's. New tires are next on the agenda

Pics Here: 49 COE Pics

Its a good looker. .85 OD is just about right for one of these things. You don't find one specced that well and in that condition very often.

Definitely not a 5831 or 5531, probably a Watson. Not up to big torque, fine for gasser.

i dont know if this will help in determining if its a factory install or not but the one gmc i saw with the watson box had the aux. shifter on the column if i remember correctly. but it also had a hydro so i dont know if that would make a diff. or not.

I'm doubtful at this point that its a factory install, the crossmember that supports the watson is very home-brew looking and the shifter install and trimming of the access panel that covers it is definitely an afterthought, I will post more detailed pics now that I have the bed off.

The story I got when I bought the truck is that it had spent its life in Ontario Oregon in Ore-Ida potato country hauling beets and spuds. It had a sister COE the same color. In the area was an outfitter that added tag axles sucs as the one mine had and brownies to make these rigs capable of the heavy loading. The old boy I got my truck from thought this truck had probably been upgraded locally long-ago

I got my 2-speed axle dash sticker today, Thanks Mongo. It looks great

http://www.mongosgarage.com/catalog/2Speed.htm

Also replaced a noisy water pump and been road testing the truck frequently, I will be putting a bed on the truck and it will be going into frequent service hauling cars for me.

That factory radiator fan sure is loud!!! I think I may go electric...pretty much the only modification I have planned.

Yes, it is a Watson 43 and you are correct regarding the ratios. I have the same one in my '49 4400 ton and a half. Mine also works great although I still haven't driven it out of the yard because of engine issues. When I got my truck about 5 years ago I was intrigued with the Brownie and that was one of the reasons I bought the Big Bolt. I did some research on the internet and after several weeks of digging I wormed my way to an ancient historian at Dana Spicer who actually at one time built these things at Watson. I spent about an hour talking to him on the phone. He had old archive material on the unit that he was generous enough to copy for me. I have info that shows these units were originally used in tanks for one thing. He also sent me the installation instructions which were provided by Watson to Chevy and GMC dealers. It showed them how to make the mounting brackets to properly locate the unit so the propeller shafts could be properly connected. It also showed how to mount the shift linkage and it always was mounted on the left of the tranny shifter. There wasn't much about servicing the unit, if I remember. I put the stuff away in a file somewhere and could supply copies if someone needs them. Unfortunately some are large pages and I don't readily have a way to copy large pages.
In my installation the mounting brackets are mostly angle iron that was very obviously cut with a torch and never cleaned up so they have a lot of character. The linkage looked like it was part of a kit because all those parts are "factory" quality, not torch and hammer work. I have the bed off my truck so it is easy to see the Brownie. If anyone needs photos of my installation to help figure anything out, I could take some shots.

I'm very interested in install instructions and diagrams if you can dig them out and copy or let me scan/copy them.

I've got a line on a Watson for my 52 1 ton. While I'm sure I could figure it out making the install appear original wold be nice.

Thanks,
Grigg

Great info Bossman, mine has the angle iron brackets as you describe and my shifter is left of the transmission also

i like coe trucks!

Grigg... I sent you a PM on your request and I have not heard back. Did you get the notification? I don't want you to think I am ignoring you. I found the info I was telling you about.