The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Can I stop my drip?

Hi Everyone,
My truck has had a tendency to mark its territory since I got it, but it seems like she's dropping an increasing amount of oil these days. It's a '42 with the original 216, so I would expect a little leakage, but it's getting pretty bad. I can't tell exactly where it's coming from, since from underneath the whole engine looks like a big, oily mess. The drip is mostly at the front, at about the position of the axle, but I don't know where it's originating.
I got an oil pan gasket set for it. Now I'm wondering A)Is this something I can install myself? and B)How likely is it to help?
I'm reasonably capable at working on my truck for a newbie. I've rebuilt the brakes, carburetor, doors; installed a water pump, new front springs, headers & exhaust. Is dropping the pan and replacing gaskets in that difficulty range, or should I let a pro handle it? If I do it myself, is there anything in particular I should be careful of?
As for question B, I already have the gaskets. So if it's an easy job with any chance of helping the leak, or a more advanced job with a good chance of helping, then I'll try it. I just want to avoid a difficult job with no chance of helping the problem.
What do you think?

IF the leak is coming from the oil pan gasket, you can do it, and while you are at it you can upgrade the front and rear main seals from rope to silicon. If it is the timing cover seal you'll have to pull the pan to get to the two bolts in the front bearing cap at the bottom of the timing cover.

I'd power wash the engine at one of those coin operated car washes- get all the grease and dirt off the engine and underside. (plastic bags and rubber bands on the carb, distributor and draft tube). I sometimes even take my set of ramps to the carwash so its easier to spray from below. After that if there are still some grease marks try brake cleaner and a tooth brush or green pad if neccesary. Then check it every day as it starts leaking to figure out just where it is coming from.

If it is the oil pan, there are a couple of things to keep in mind when changing a pan gasket.

Count the bolts, take them off, keep track of them and clean them up before putting them back on. Clean the gasket surface on the block down to bare metal. I usually use a razor blade in the flat scraper set up used for cleaning windows and follow up with brake cleaner on a rag.

First- clean out the pan real good when you've got it off. There's a good change it'll contain a layer of sludge. In fact, you might run some engine flush (or marvell's mystery oil) for 5 minutes before draining the engine. The older oil didn't have detergents and so the particals of gunk settled in the pan. Newer oils keep the stuff in suspension so the filter will catch it.

Second- Once its off you might have to loosen the crank to get the front and rear main seals out. Make sure you've got the torque specs and a torque wrench for this and to tighten the pan bolts. And since you've got the pan off, why not paint it and maybe carefully straigten some dents and dings?

Third- Before you paint it or put it back on, make sure and straighten the mounting surface. By that I mean using a hammer and dolly/anvil or other flat surface (vise?), to flatten around each bolt hole. There is a tendency for the metal around the holes to bow towards the gasket from tighening. If you don't get this surface flat before reinstalling, you may not get a good seal.

Fourth- 'glue' your gasket to the pan- put a bead of silicon on the pan, put the gasket in place, let it dry for a while. You can even put or tape a few bolts in the holes to line up the gasket

OPTIONAL- some people put Silicon on both sides of the gasket- 'glue' it first and then when its ready to mount put tsilicone on the other side. A little goes a long way.

Fifth - Slide the top half of the front and rear main seals in place and torque the crank bearing caps back down.

Sixth- RTV 2-B (or whatever you used on the gasket) on the threads of the bolts/screws- This is a non-hardening sealer and helps.

Seventh. Let it sit at least overnight before you fill it with oil.

Eigth- Since you've got it off nows a good time to upgrade to a magnetic drain plug. These are handy 'cause when you check the oil if there's anything on them you know something is up with the engine. Don't forget to replace the plasic or copper drain plug washer and keep track of the extras, you'll need them next time you change the oil.

Finally, DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN the plug or the bolts. Common mistake is to overtigthen these and squeeze out the silicon or crush the gasket or bend the pan.

NM51, very good advise, not much anyone coud add! One thing I like to do is, glue the gasket to the pan and carefully lay it gasket side down and seta heavy weight on it. This simulates being bolted on, you don't end up with high spots of sealer! Jon, I say clean it up and tear it apart, it don't get much better then that! Joe

I you have access to a torque wrench that would be best for tightening the bolts. You will get a consistant torque on the bolts and be less likely to bend the pan. A 3/8" torque wrench that goes down to 5 ft/lbs should be fine for this or a 1/4" inch/lbs if you do the conversion from the ft/lbs spec.

One thing I could add to NM51's fine advise is to take two or three bolts of the same thread as the pan bolts, cut the heads off, thread them into holes on each side of the opening. Use them as guides to line the pan up as you install it. Once you get the rest of the bolts in place you can unscrew the headless bolts & put the regular bolts in. Make sure they are long enough for you to grab after the pan is on.

There is no split front "main" seal in that motor. It is a round seal that is pressed in to the front cover.

A neoprene rear main seal will not wotk properly on that motor because it is not machined for it.

You should really try and figure out where the oil is leaking from. The idea of powerwashing it first may save you a lot of trouble.

Truckernix is right- my bad.

The 216/235/261 don't have a top and bottom front crank seal, only the rear has both.

I know there's a debate about using old-style rope seals or switching to neoprene in the older engines. I put neoprene in mine and it works fine, no leaks.

Getting the rope seals to seat and seal properly is a bit of an art, and one that I can confess not having complete mastered, which is why I go with neoprene.

NM51,
thanks for that information. You are the first to say that a neoprene seal works in the older motor. They are much nicer to work with. Is your motor a low pressure job, as in original?

Bikesmith,
if it tuns out that you have a leaking front seal, you can replace it without dropping the pan. You just pull the rad to make room, pull the damper pulley, put a couple of tapping srews in the seal body and yank it out.

My engine is a 1962 261, full pressure-full circulation filtration, and which I believe came stock with a rope seal.

Truckernix is right- If you only need to replace the crank seal you don't have to pull the timing cover, just take out the radiator, pull the crank pulley, pull the round seal from the timing cover and put a new one back in. Putting the crank pulley on might be a bit of a pain in the rear if it hasn't already been drilled and tapped to take a bolt. However, drilling and tapping the crank to be able to press on the crank pulley with a bolt isn't a big deal. You might also be able to heat up the crank pulley in the oven to get it to expand, place it on the crank, put a piece of wood infront of it and smack it into place with a hammer. Personally, I'd drill and tap the crank.

If the timing cover gasket is leaking you will have to pull the radiator, crank pulley, and then the oil pan to get to the two lower bolts which come from the inside through the front main bearing cap. Those bolts have a flat metal retaining clip on them that you have to bend to loosen the bolts. (Which probably has a special name I don't know).

Even if it is the timing cover that is leaking it is something you can do and might be expensive to have a mechanic do for you. Just take your time and keep track of the bolts.

If you do have to pull the timing cover and front bearing cap, that would be a good time to thread the holes in the bearing cap and put the bolts in from the outside so that next time you don't have to pull the pan.