The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Brake Bleeding Question - Now with a Chewy Update Center

Hello!

I was bleeding my brakes with my friend this weekend, and figuring that I'd like to keep him as a friend, I volunteered to crawl under the truck and run the bleeder screws.

The only problem is that he's never bled a manual brake system before and he didn't know what I meant when I said "Make sure all of the air is out of the master cylinder."

So, after he kept losing pedal, I crawled out from under the truck and figured out that he hadn't gotten the air out of the MC and I took over for a while.

Now, if I give it a couple of good pumps, the pedal comes right back, which is what I'd expect if there's air in the system (which there is.)

At first, I was getting bubbles when I was trying to bleed out the MC, but now I don't. The fluid level goes down when the pedal does (as I would expect) but comes back up to about where it was when I started. Sometimes I get a rather enthusiastic spurt.

Does this mean that the air is out of the MC and I now need to get it out of the lines?

Thanks in advance,

-Brendan

I suspect the brake shoes need adjusted. If they aren't close enough to the drum it will take several pumps of the pedal to drive them out. When you then let off of the pedal the springs on the shoes pull them back, returning the brake fluid to the master cylinder.

Brendan I believe Tiny is correct.

Air in the lines will give you a spongy feel to the pedal. Badly out of adjustment shoes will require you to quickly pump the pedal a couple of tines before it gets hard. When adjusting the breaks be sure to adjust the shoes all the way out until the wheel locks (can't turn it by hand) then back the adjuster off until the shoes just have a faint rub.

i used one of those cheap kits from NAPA. hose push on lose bleader,one way valve,'nother hose to a old soda jar. i kept th' master cyl fill and pumped the brakes and had the lines clear in no time. 4 stars. general info, start bleading from the furthest wheel from the master cyl. (Line lenght).

Thanks guys. That makes a hellovalotta sense.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I've experienced the shoe thing before. I was doing a lining/drum inspection on my car when I changed my tires back to my craptastic summer ensemble (figured that while I had the wheels off...) and I ended up having to adjust the shoes in to get a drum back on. Suffice it to say, it was a bit of an interesting week while things got reacclimated. :rolleyes:

Grandpa and I adjusted the shoes originally according to his instructions, which I have since learned were incorrect. (The only wheel that I know for certain is correct is the driver's side front. I redid that one after fixing the shoe hardware and having the drum turned. This was -- of course -- after I managed to embarrass myself in a brake thread. )

Of course, I didn't remember Grandpa's reputation and believed him! (My dad says he should have made shoes, because he was a master cobbler!)

Chester:

Thanks for your advice! I was using a bleeder cup -- while it wasn't big enough -- it worked good for keeping the air from going back in. It did nothing for keeping the brake fluid off of me, but that's another story.

I was following the procedure outlined in the shop manual, which is pretty much exactly what you described.

Just a suggestion.....on the "HELP" aisle at your favorite local parts supplier (Advanced/AutoZone, etc) you'll find a little pack of SPEED BLEEDERS (2/pkg/$9.00)....you replace the stock bleeder screws, fill up the master cylinder, crack the furthest wheel cylinder, attach a hose to a catch can and sit in the drivers seat and gently pump 6-10 pumps and the SPEED BLEEDERS keep air from sucking back into the system. Close the furthest, refill the M/C, go to the next and repeat the operation on all the others.

The only downside is that you've gotta watch the level in the master cylinder. It's soooooo easy
you might run it dry.

Carry one of your old bleeder screws with you as there are 3 different thread configurations. Once you use the SPEED BLEEDERS you'll shelf your ole vacuum pump, pressure bleeder and your "bleeding partner" can sip on a brew while you bleed ALL the air or REPLACE the nasty fluid in your entire system with a minimum of effort.

It's the best $20.00 you'll spend on your truck!!! I know this because...

I had thought about the speed bleeders at one point, because I've been waiting five months for someone's schedule to open up, but ultimately decided against it.

Doing it the old-fashoned way has other benefits. It enables me to spend time with friends and family who like to beat on old vehicles. It enables their spouses to breathe a sigh of relief when they don't drag home one of their own.

I pulled out the truck and adjusted the brake shoes. The rear ones were close -- but too far off of the drum -- but the front passenger side shoes were waaaaay off.

The brakes work MUCH better now. They're a little spongy... but I'm sure there's air in the lines.

Thanks for the shove in the right direction!

Ain't it fun when things start to go right. Glad we could help.

Yep. I'm having a great time!

Now all I have to do is get the wiring finished... Tail lights are a rather necessary thing!

How about the master cylinder "special tool" referenced in my (1958) shop manual? Is there any magical item out there that can attach to the master cylinder, through the floor board, to act as a reservoir of extra fluid?

How easy would THAT be- just attaching those Speed Bleeders and this Magic Reservoir, pumping a few times, moving to the next brake, etc.

Any suggestions?

Bill

Fla54,
Those speed bleeders are the best inventions to come around in a long time. You explained how easy they are to work, and they are just that easy. I don't need the wife anymore! (Don't tell her that. I've already had many battles over bleeding brakes with her. lol)
Rick

TxLaTx- Per a thread on this site year or so back was a how-to pressure bleeder/reservoir made from a 1/2 gl weed sprayer. This is the only way to go when doing your brake job. With your little weed sprayer, install a 20 psi generic pressure gauge near the top. Modify the hose to adapt to the fill cap on your whatever master cyl. I just drilled and tapped an extra fill cap for my truck, screwed in a hose fitting. Now you have a container half full of brake fluid and just enough pressure to do the job (15psi). Pump her up and then just go around bleeding wheel cyls. easy one man job. You also will need some extra clear tubing and that's about it.

Also, if your fill cap is vented you'll want to plug those holes.

I love the speed bleeders to. Put them on every car/truck whenever I need to do brake work. Under 20$ and you get all four.

And it makes things sooooo easy and fast.

Brendan if youve got the proper truck theres ALWAYS something else to fix with friends!

YES! THANKS JiMerit!! That is along the lines of what has been rolling around in my head over the last day or so, but my idea was not so elegant. Thanks for the tip- wish I could have been "bolted" back then to have picked it up the first time.

Bill

At the risk of wearing this thread out, I have another related question.

I'm going to get those speed bleeders, and I want to rig up the pressure bottle to the master cylinder. I don't like the access I'll have to the MC cap, through the floor. (I have a '58.) I also don't like the thought of having excess brake fluid that is guaranteed to flow out of the tubing between the cap and the bottle. Here's the question:

Can I put a "T" in the brake line right near the master cylinder, but with access from under the truck, with a little valve on it? I would then run the tube from the bottle sitting on the ground to the T and tap into the line. Yes, I might add a little air into the line as I attach the tube from the bottle to the valve, but I'm bleeding air from the lines anyway, so any additional air will simply be bled away. Why isn't there a "tap" on the brake line? Is the master cylinder the only place where I should add fluid?

If I have to bleed the brakes at least once a year, shouldn't I have a quick disconnect on it, right next to the master cylinder?

This seems too easy and, in my experience, "too easy" usually means "it won't work." Will it work or not?

Bill

Having spent the better part of the day today plumbing in my new front and rear disc setup I would offer these suggestions. Cutting a 4X6" access door w/piano hinge slightly behind the round stock opening will greatly increase getting to the m/c. This is assuming that you have upgraded to a dual chamber cylinder. This gives you room to get the cap on and off and see the fluid level. A plastic bottle with twist spout makes filling the chambers much easier.

A typical m/c develops from 700-100 psi on the lines and I personally wouldn't want to trust just any valve to keep the system closed. The folding access door makes it easy to fill and monitor the fluid level and you can avoid any potential system failures and extended periods of laying on your back under your vehicle.

As for bleeding the system, I've manufactured a homemade pressure bleed system which was ok, a vacuum system which sucked air around the bleeder screws and have found that the speed bleeders were the simplest, safest (brake fluid=paint remover) system for keeping the brake system in top-notch form. It works for me because......

I am considering a frame mounted power booster but do not like the idea of a large access panel that requires lifting the carpet to check/ fill fluid. Now maybe this idea is way off base, but is it possible to tap in another container of sorts in the brake line and use that as a remote fill location? I have no idea what to use as the container, but was thinking something small that could be mounted in the engine compartment. Thoughts???

Holy old thread, Batman!

57:

Not sure. What does the frame-mounted hydrovac have in the way of external connectors?

I have seen a power steering reservoir used in a remote location with an 1/8 inch hose and nipple tapped into the master cyl. cap.Take a look at your Hondas,Nissans and Toyotas.

Like this:

http://www.classicperform.com/Store/1947_59_Trucks/PBRK.htm

Picture:

http://www.rjays.com/Classic_Perf/classic_images/PBRK.jpg

Thanks robin58,that's it !! A picture is worth 1,000 words.

Brendan- I did not realize the date until you said something about it! Whew! Anyway what I am looking at is the typical CPP dual master cylinder.

gtow- Help me understand why you need to tap into the master cylinder as opposed to just branching off from the lines?

57 vroom vroom, the link I posted is for CPP's conversion to accomplish exactly what you are seeking to do.