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Hi guys i'm a middle aged woman in chicago IL that just received my fathers 1953 gmc 1/2 ton pick up a gift. The body is in great shape and partially restored but i'd like to use this as my daily source of transportation. The expressways around chicago require I drive more modern speeds and gas mileage is a concern. I'm planing on using a S10 frame and updating the drive train. Since i'm starting from scratch any suggestions on engine-transmission-rearend for my needs? Thanks for any help!!!

if your a first time builder robin the s-10 swap might be abit over welming, might be easyer for a first time builder just to get a mid 60s chev car rear a 350/350 combo and just change out motor mounts radiator, disk brakes are nice and showy but the drum brakes work just fine unless your planning on doing alot of racing wouldn't worry bout weather it has disk brakes or not :)the s-10 conversion you will have to know alot about fabrication and body work to get the thing to sit right on the frame

You haven't said what you budget would be so it's an unknown approach but since gas mileage is a concern, you have Chicago winters, and probably want an automatic I'd consider the stock S10 drive train. The 4.3 S10's came with 700R4 overdrive transmissions. No matter which engine you choose it will need to have fuel injection with all the sensors to get good mileage, carbed engines just won't equal injected engines in that department and they are good cold weather starters. 5.4 or smaller engine, OD trans, and a rear end that will make around a 2.75 final gearing would be a reasonable target. If a shop furnishes the S10, AD Engineering kit, engine, trans, rear, exhaust,plumbing etc.,you can expect conversion bill of around $12-15k. Once the conversion is done you will need a modern fresh air heater or heat-A/C to keep the windows clear enough for winter driving. These were 45-50 mph trucks on roads that were mostly only good for that speed so when driven 70 they have wind noise you won't believe and there is NOTHING you can do about it without investing cubic money. They have no seat belts and the door latches are a joke which once again can be cured with $$$'s. If one has a shop and can do much of the work then a truck like this is not out of reach but if one has to pay for everything then $25-30k can be expected.

Given the conditions where you want to drive this truck, be it the Ike, the Kennedy,Michigan Av.,or Harlem, you will not enjoy driving an old truck in the windy city as a daily driver. You already know it would require driving at modern speeds with modern braking capabilities.
You also need things like heat, defrost,intermittent wipers, AC,power steering, power brakes, turn signals, and good lighting, seat belts,etc.

Basically,you would need to convert this old truck into an up to date vehicle to be able to feel safe and stay with the flow of traffic. I left that rat race 11 years ago and it can't be any better today.

I'm not saying you can't retro-rod that truck, but after all that money is spent,consider the ins. premium you'd have to pay to daily drive it.
Then you're cruising down 294 and some idiot rear ends you, where you going to get the parts to fix this gem you had built.

I don't know how you feel, but if I can't get close to 30 mpg from my daily driver, it's not my daily driver.

I think it's a fine idea you have to want to up grade an old truck, but I would use that truck for pleasure so I could enjoy the fruits of my labor.
Personally, I would feel at ease driving an APC in Chi-town.

Now I'm sorry if I didn't answer your questions and instead voiced my thoughts on your idea, but it was only said to make you look at the reality of what you intend to do.
If you still want to do this I and the rest of us will be here to lend you a hand with what we know.
I know I can't speak for all of us but I believe that's true, Well guys, T or F

Dan

Much of what the guys have said is dead on bulls eye, that said, I am a daily driver only vehicle year 'round of the truck listed in my signature below.

I have taken 2k trips with this set-up and it is doable, in fact, comfortable (for me). My daily commute is between 6 and 9 miles, surface streets or up on the interstate. I live in a small town (40k or so) and never see the kind of traffic you will see on a daily basis.

With enough moola you can convert anything into a rolling living room that is the American vehicle today, in fact with your money spent you'll be wondering where to put your coffee cup as there is no provision for them (think Duct Tape rolls).

All humor aside it is doable in stock or nearly stock form, it just needs a person 'cut from different cloth'. Good luck in your decision making.

OK that was my first post and I was worried about getting long winded. More info, I know my way around a garage, welder, and engines so I plan on doing what I can by myself and with some help of some friends. I plan on using a chassis swap kit from E-Z chassis swap, and a 4wd s10 rearend to get the right width on the back. I'm looking for advice on the best drive train setup for my needs guys not on if its a cheap or even praticle idea, how many women do you know spend money only on praticle items
Thanks for the great input and i love reading all the post and checking out all the great pics!

I was thinking about the 4.3 v6 but was wondering if the added weight of the older truck body would tax the engine enough to offest the fuel mileage advantages of the smaller engine. I was thinking 350sbc, will the 4.3 v6 have enough power to get me down the experessway at highway speeds? Thanks for the great input!

Welcome to the Bolt' Robin! I would say go the SBC route. The options and availability of parts for them can't be beat! You can easily achieve milage in the low 20's with a SBC V8 and an overdive capable trans. My brother has a 350 bored .80 over with a quadrajet, backed by a Camaro trans with 2 overdrives and a 3.73 rear end. He get's good milage cruising around. Just some thought.

The 4.3 V-6 is a good engine and was used in full size pickups and Blazer/Jimmys for many years. They have adequate power but may not provide much MPG difference compared to a 5.7/5.0 V-8.
Fred

I got to say i'm releived to hear that guys, think i'll stick with 350sbc then. One of my biggest fears is to spend the time and money to do this and find out later "I wish i had used different engine/drive train".

it all depends on what type of a person that you are and what you set yor values at.
these guys will have you broke in no time.
it is an older truck and you may want to keep the older truck values. or do you want the latest assortment of comforts and if you want the later buy a newer vehicle and restore or midly update the truck with respect to your father. why did he keep it around?
ron
it is real easy to spend someone elses money

So, if you are going the SBC route, don't!!!
This is only half a joke: as good as the SBC was, it is a very old design, improved over the years. If you are going to do so much work, if you need easy power, reliability and good mileage, us an LS-family engine. These are the modern, current "small block" available in all Chevy trucks/vans/Camaro/Corvette since the late '80s/early'90s. They are very modern engine, very good engines and they are a bolt-on wherever a SBC would go (with just an aftermarket adapter). They come in a variety of sizes, 4.8, 5.3 (one of those would be the best for your project), 5.7, 6.0, 6.2. 7.0 liters... They are powerful and reliable, easy to maintain and parts are everywhere!
Many people are scared of the electronic engine/trans management, but help and parts are very common: to start, go visit www.LS1tech.com, they have a section called "hybrids" for vehicles that did not come with such an engine, and there is vast knoledge available there. Many shops/companies specialize in these engines, you just do not see them mentionned here! I would not be surprised to find dedicated headers or bolt-in kit for your truck, even. I have used a company called Speartech to reprogram my computer and modify my harness. It was my first engine swap ever and went very smoothly!
They are also very very common and very cheap in junkyards.
As for mileage, there is no miracle, our old trucks are not that heavy but are so un-aerodynamic that good freeway mileage is close to a dream...
The dream engine for my '57 Suburban? a turbo diesel from a Dodge Sprinter van, but I do not have the budget or skills...
Congratulation on driving your truck as a daily-driver, but aren't you worried about quick damage from road salt and grave? Mine is only a 3-season daily-driver, winters in Calgary are too hard...

Ron, we used the truck to haul firewood for years and after dad retired the wood stove he decided on fixing it up, but he inherited a classic car from his mother and needed the garage space. He and i had restored the engine 30 years ago together as a summer project and he knew i loved the old truck and gave it to this xmas as a present. I drove a 51 3/4 ton pickup to work at the local factory for years and love old chevys/gmc's and now that im divorced and have no life this is the perfect project for me. I want the truck to be my primary source of transportation eventually.

Winter driving doesn't bother me in the least and neither does road salt. If I do the restoration properly and keep it washed and clean it won't fair any worse than anyother care driven in the windy city. You guys are giving me great info so far and a TON to think about. Thank goodness for the internet...

Robin I'd consider an S-10 4x4 unless you are going for a real lowered look. Either stay with the stock transfer case or swap to an AWD transfer case.

The width of the front will be close to the stock truck, meaning you may not need adapters, and you have the added security of 4x4 in those Chicago winters.

You haven't really said what your mpg target is. I get 17 mpg on the highway in my 350TBI powered 3/4-ton pickup with a 700r4. I would expect an S-10 based AD truck to perform about the same using a similar motor maybe a little better because you're lighter, but perhaps not as aerodynamic.

I love the idea of using a S10 4x4 but the kicker is I found 3 different companies selling conversion kits and non of them will work with 4x4's. I may give thme a call and see if they would modify me a kit if i give them a specific year of S10 4x4. If there are only a couple of pieces that would need modified i'd be ok with that but i'd like for most of the kit to work or it's not a time saver to buy a kit, and a waste of money. I'll keep digging online and see if i can find out if someone has used a 4x4 frame and what all was involved. Thanks again!

AD-Engineering used to sell 4x4 kits but quit because there were so many variations. He says on his site that he will work with anyone wanting to do a 4x4.

You say three firms are offering S-10 frame kits. I'm only aware of two, AD-Engineering and E-Z Chassis Swap. Who is the third?

I have a 4x4 frame in my shop and am leaning to doing my own swap without a kit. Although I just came in from my shop frustrated because I'm not getting a straight cut on a bracket I want to make and that doesn't bode well for making a full set of body mounts...

RobinL, if you're for real I think you kick [censored].



To answer your question Dan, I gotta go with False. Here's why.

I agree with making the brakes, suspension, etc., etc, right, but disagree with most of the rest. See, for me the largest part of the fun is actually driving the old beast. No power steering, shifting, feeling every bump - that's all part of it. And - it can all be done safely. I do it a lot and enjoy every minute of it. Not Chicago, but OKC, Dallas, and one trip to Minneapolis.

Just one opinion, no offense intended.

Lonny

It is also really cool to drive something (anything) that looks 50 years old but runs like a new car (or close!), with power everything, A/C... something that can run easily with modern traffic!
Go, RobinL!

Oldsub, saw a third site, http://www.mongosgarage.com/ , that handles conversion kits but after re-reading i think he is just re-selling the "e-z swap kits".

Avette4me, I had a '51 a '48 chevy pickups in the past and drove them all over but at this point in my life i'd like to enjoy having a classic truck and enjoy a nice smooth ride at the same time. I know the truck pourist will crap a bisket but it's just me.

wave1957, thanks for the support, i'm excitted about this project but because of the great input on this site it seems i change my mind constantly as to how best to go this. So far i'm leaning back to the 2wd chassis witha 4wd rearend on s modern S10 frame.

Lonny, T or F was a question put there to mean would we be willing to help, beings I can't speak for all of us, but based on the response I'd have to say yes. We are willing to help.
It ain't no big thing, just wanted to clear it up.

Robin, if I knew a lot about the motor/ frame swap issue I'd lend you a hand but it's not my area of expertise. When you get to the part I'm good at I'll help.
Good luck with your project.
Dan

Robin, I am sure my truck is not anything like what you have in mind for your truck. I wanted big, 4x4 and to h377 with the gas mileage. I do drive my truck every day that I can about 60 miles round trip, from country to city. When it comes time to get it insured I recommend getting it appraised and get full coverage just like you would on a brand new car if you intend to drive it every day. If you go with the "classic car" insurance you are limited to when and where you can drive it by the insurance carrier and you might as well just park it in the back yard and never drive it.

You go girl! and keep us posted on the build, you will get lots of help and advice from the folks here.

Robin,
Welcome. Your project is a worthy one. I recently rented an Escalade while visiting friends in Colorado. The airport is pretty far from everything and by the time we took back the vehicle, we must have traveled a couple hundred miles and only used half a tank of fuel. I was so impressed by that, I've been trying to think of a way to get that technology into a bolt. I met a guy with a nicely restored '68 Buick Skylark who did that very thing and has himself a first rate daily driver. He did all the work himself but he has a huge alignment shop and pretty deep pockets. As long as we are talking big, be sure to incorporate antilock brakes into your project. Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress. Don

Thanks guys! and the antilock breaks sounds like a great idea!

Lonny you may want to drive the old truck there in Turtle Oklahoma but in the windy city with, crazy's driving up your tailpipe and 6' snowdrifts on every corner? no no no!

I get everything but the snow when I'm around Dallas/Ft Worth. Ya'll can be crazy there.

Robin - Welcome. I started the S-10 swap route, then developed an IFS kit to go under a stock frame. https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...Main=84625&Number=595038#Post595038. However if your looking to use a 4x4, there are other problems as well. A Dakota frame is a better fit track wise and doesnt have the steering to radiator interference since it uses rack and pinion. No kits, however can be done straight forward with a bit of fabrication (unless your like Steve and cant cut straight - sorry Steve, had to go there)

You can do an S-10 without a kit, however you do need fabrication skills - its just new brackets, etc. However you still have the issue with the narrow frame, and the steering gear running into the radiator. Although a 4x4 front suspension on an S-10 can be converted to rack and pinion unlike its 2WD sibling which will help. There is a few on the HAMB that have attempted the 4x4 swap, I do not know if they finished one.

My recommendation would be keep the solid front axle, upgrade to disc brakes (I have driven in Chicago often and drums will not cut it). If your looking for mileage, then find an ATLAS 4200 (found in trailblazers, etc). 300hp, overdrive trans, etc. If you want 4x4, then use a 4x4 driveline and put in a solid front axle like a dana 35 (like the Napco's)

If your trying to put anti-lock brakes into the vehicle, your now looking at a complete system swap (ECM / PCM / BCM, wiring harnesses, Axles / knuckles with ABS sensors, complete brake system, etc.) in addition to the driveline. your best bet here would be to re-body an existing driving truck with your old body. That is getting into the lots-o-wwork category.

Good luck with the project.

Scott

I sure had a day like that last week! But if you're referring to the HAMB thread my real issue remains the unrealistically close tolerances some people claim to maintain. +-zero to an unstated number of decimals isn't credible to me.

Right now my bigger problem is chemo seems to affect my memory. I put a part down and can't recall where it is when I need it again.

All these projects take longer, cost more and are more work than originally expected.

Correct, take your estimate of money and time, then multiply by 3 or 4 and your close.

Welcome Robin. So far you have recieved great advice and you most always will here on the Stovebolt.

I am neck deep into a couple of these projects and they do take more money than you can imagine. One (1947) will be a street rod and the other (1951)is the one I am driving.

The problem with the frame swap or other major blow it apart and rebuild is so many never get finished. It takes tons of dedication (and cash) to complete a long term muti year project. You have so many options with the factory frame, straight axle updated, MII, Scott's kit. Swap the rear,drop in a later six with an auto trans. All in a good solid original fame. Heck if you want to spend the money there are complete aftermarket frames that your truck will bolt right on to.

Good luck with the project!

Jim

Holy Cow !!! you guys really know your stuff My thought was to upgrade the truck to ride like a more modern version but still be the old truck I grew up riding around with my dad. I checked on prices for converting to disc brakes and IFS using kits, and also a few kits for upgrading the rear end. It seemed like a S10 frame swap was going to be more cost effective but after some of the rescent input i'm not so sure. The advantage of the S10 frame swap was also the ease of swapping out the engine for a V8 or V6, I didn't think doing that in the original frame was going to be easy without having to modify the steering and a few other bugs. All that being said, i'm going to have the truck towed up to chicago as soon as i find a garage to rent and check the condition of the engine(248), we over hauled it when i was a kid together and i might be able to use it and try an automatic trans and fresh rearend. If this is the case i just may keep the frame original and upgrade it as i get the money and time. Like many of you have said, this ain't happening overnight but well worth the effort. Thanks again guys!

avvete in oklahoma? lol dang and i thought i was the only one here from OK :P

Naw, there are a bunch of you Okies here! lol