The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop ZFS6-650 Six Speed Truck Transmission

Saaay:
Has anyone out there taken a look at these transmissions for a potential swap behind an inline six? They're pricey, but I would like to know what the bolt pattern etc. is. They're available as on option with either the Duramax Diesel or the Big Block Chevy/GMC V8.
JimBo

I have looked at them and think they would make a great trans for an inline. They have an integral bellhousing that bolts directly to the 6.0 LS? type and the Duramax. I think it also bolts at the bottom to the cast engine oil pan. It's a large, long trans and the rear mount pad is off the end of the tail. It would be a long stretch from the rear mount to the front of a six, without that extra block to bell support.
The FNord version is also with integral bell.
It is also used in the GM Kodiak and Topkick behind a Cat diesel. This one has a separate bellhousing. I have no idea how big the four bolt pattern is, how big the retainer is or the size and spline count of the input.
I have wondered if this version could be mated to my bellhousing with the side mounts.

I forgot to mention, that it has an oil pump in it. I'm not sure about the Kodiak/Cat version, but the FnOrd version is set up for an external oil cooler like an automatic trans.

Not only are these transmissions very large for an AD model truck but they are built to take 500-600 ft.lbs. of torque so it seems like trying to move a freight train with a B&S engine. The friction of this thing would eat up a lot of what an old inline puts out.

Just my opinion but this would be better posed as Bill O'Reilly's Most Rediculous Item of the Day.

True,,,,true,,,, maybe

They are pretty good size, but with the aluminum case they are only about 40 LB heavier than a SM465 4 spd.
Friction or torque loss shouldn't be that great with the special synthetic oils it has to have and I think it uses tapered roller top and bottom instead of needle bearings.
AD trucks came with 4spd Hydromatics. Ever lift one of those mothers up under a car? I suspect it would take a lot of torque loss to turn one of them. They even have two oil pumps.

Sorry someone thought my request for information deserved posting as the most rediculous item of the day. I was obviously under the mistaken impression that the whole purpose of the forum was to learn, exchange and share information about these old trucks and possible changes, improvements etc.

Bubba-
Yeah...that is encouraging when you ask a good question and get belittled isn't it!
I guess the moderator thought you had to be put in your place. Sometimes people with the most knowledge are like that.

Ghostrider:
What the hell it's really no big deal!, I'm a pretty thick skinned old coot and have run into the World's Foremost Authority syndrome before. I can see however where that type of reply would be discouraging to someone who's just getting started in the hobby. Thanks for the encouragement and support though it is appreciated. In the years I've been a member of this forum I've just never come accross a response like that.
Thanks again
JimBo

OK boys, settle down. Getting ruffled feathers isn't what it's about. Lot's of Authorities on here and I'm not one in 99/100 instances. I said it was Just My Opinion and it is, wasn't intended to offend but that is your perogative. But I really don't care if you put Caterpillar transmission in your truck. But let's face it, some of the things suggested here are sort of over the top. Good God Gentlemen, lighten up.

OK Dave:
Consider it lightened up!
Now lets talk about swapping a Catepiller D8 into the 52 AD 3600
JimBo

JimBo...I have a demo truck with an 8000 lb. hydraulic crane that will be mighty handy when you latch onto that D8 box..

No feathers ruffled here...just wanted to back up
JimBO. Say...I've got a line on a Buick straight
eight. How bout this bad boy coupled to a caterpillar transmission in my 3600?? May have to move the radiator forward an inch or two.

Ok guys now that we determined that the ZFS6-650 just might be overkill, how about a TKO-600 five speed? And up until what year did Chevrolet use the 4 speed gear box that was OEM in the 52 AD?
JimBo

Who determined it was overkill?
The guy with the attitude?
"like trying to move a freight train with a B&S engine" Is an opinion.
"friction of this thing would eat up a lot of what an old inline puts out" Is an opinion.
"this would be better posed as Bill O'Reilly's Most Rediculous Item of the Day." Is a slam.
Uninformed and uncalled for.

Your '52 3600 is a 3/4 ton, my, '67 is a 3/4 ton and Chevy has been using the ZF 650 in their 3/4 ton 2500 since 2000. They use it in the 2500, 3500, 4500 and the 5500.
Chevy used the SM465 in 3/4 ton, 1 ton, 1.5 ton and 2 ton trucks for years. Does that mean I have a freight train SM465 trans in my 3/4 ton.

It would take two of any other transmission to get the gear spacing and number of gears of the one ZF 650. Here is an idea. Put a Gear Venders overdrive unit(they call it a gear splitter) on the back of a SM465. It would be longer than a ZF650. Heavier than a ZF650. Harder to install than a ZF650 and cost a hell of a lot more than a ZF650.

I may be thick headed, but I'm not so thick skinned that I don't know when bull [censored]'s walkin'.

Richard:
The more I read about the TKO-600 the more attractive it becomes. I just don't have any pricing yet to compare with the ZF 650. I used to work for GMC and still have some Buds at the dealership so I can get the gear box at employees cost. Don't laugh but I actually did look into the Gear Vendors Overdirve...The price almost put me into cardiac arrest. Those guys think that damned thing is made outa platnum.