The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop More help!!!

I thought I'd begin another post on my new problem. I checked the valves on cylinder one and they are open when TDC on cylinder one. The valves on cylinder six are closed and have some play. Could it be I'm TDC on six? I tried to adjust the valves using the proper gaps and a feeler, but by the time I get to the number five cylinder, the push rods bottom out on the rocker arm. I cannot explain how confused I am. Here is the website I used for the valve adjustment: http://www.speedprint.com/deves50/valveadjust.php Please let me know...

Adam

This is a continuation of my "won't run" post.

The pistons will hit TDC twice during operation, once on compression (valves closed) and once on exhaust (valves open). The cyliders are paired, so when 1 is on TDC, so is 6. But they are on different places in the cycle, 180 degrees out from each other. Trn the engine over 1 turn, then #1 should be on TDC compression, valves closed.
On setting the valves, they should be set with both valves closed on each cylinder, preferrably with the engine hot. If setting cold, you do need to leave them a bit loose, about .005" more than the hot setting.
Two questions, do you have a shop manual for your truck? And possibly one that covers the engine? If not, you can look here for information. This site is free, and you can print the pages you need to take to the truck if necessary.

Success! The engine sputtered and tried to start, but puffed out of the exhaust, not the carb like it has been. I had the darn thing 180 degrees off. I could kick myself. Now, it won't catch and keep running. It gets to the point where it's about to, then the starter dies out. Should I choke it and throttle it? Is there a trick? When I choke the carb for an extened period, there is a puddle of gas sitting in the manifold. I checked my float level and it's correct (1 3/4 inch hanging for my Rochester B). Any tips? And, again thanks for all the help.

Adam

To do this much testing you need a good battery fully charged. Then go through the system and make sure everything is set correctly (much of which you've already done) before you try to tweak things and get the engine tuned well.

Before you do too much cranking, go back and double check the valve settings using the website you referred to. You don't want to bend a pushrod because you missed your gaps or did it wrong. Double check everything. Then proceed with starting attempts. And as Longbox pointed out, if you're setting the valves cold, you want to set them a little looser than the factory specs. When the engine warms up, everything tightens up a bit from the expansion of the metals.

The old sixes need a lot of choke to start initially, especially when the engine is cold. Depress the accelerator rod a couple of times to get some gas in the manifold, put your hand over the throat of the carb and try to start the engine. If it starts, part your fingers slightly to allow some air in and keep it running.

Don't stress the starter too much. After cranking the engine a few times, if it won't start, let the starter rest for ten or fifteen minutes and go back and check all your settings.

And by the way, I'm quite impressed by your efforts. For someone who knew so little about engines, you've made great progress. And the knowledge that you've gained will be invaluable to you in the future.

Thanks longbox and baldeagle. I will try to choke the engine with my hand. If it does run on its own, and I give it some air by spreading my fingers, should I throttle some more to keep it from dying out? I still think my carburetor is putting out too much gas. I have a Rochester B carb. When I look down the carb and depress the throttle, a hard stream comes out, hits a cross beam of the carb's interior, then turn into a spray/ mist. I think that it correct. But, when the choke is on and I am turning it over, it doesn't turn over, so I stop and slowly back the choke of to see a drip come from the top port in the carb and standing gas in the manifold. Besides the screw on the side (which I believe runs the amount of air from the air pump and, in my manual should initially be 1 1/2 turns out), what other adjustments can I make? What does standing gas in the manifold suggest (besides high float level which I already adjusted)?

Also, my battery dies out pretty quickly. I am converting the truck to 12 volts, so is there any suggestions for what size 12 volt battery I should be using (amps, etc)? I haven't done any wiring yet, so the alternator isn't hooked up, but the battery should still last a little longer. Usually, I just let the battery recharge while the starter is cooling after two attempts.

Thanks again, especially you, baldeagle. You've stuck with me this whole time, even when I ask the really dumb questions.

Adam (getting there)

Does anyone have any tips on the type of 12v battery I should use (amps, etc.)?

Get the biggest one with the highest amps ( at least 600 CCA) that will fit your battery carrier. I beleive a Group 35 is pretty close.

Thanks, longbox. I'll grab a bigger battery tomorrow morning and try it again.

I tried the hand choke trick and I still get the same result: the engine gets up to speed like it's about to start, then backs off. It's like the battery dies out before the engine has a chance to start. I have a 600 cca battery and I checked the carburetor again and when it's choked and cranking, I can hear the choke spraying/ misting, but there is still standing gas in the manifold. What could be the problem? I'm soooo close. Any ideas?

Adam

Along with the previous post, I am beginning to think my engine may be too tight. It has just been rebuilt down to the piston rings (everything but new bearings). How tight should a newly rebuilt engine be? I can turn it by hand with the plugs out and it's slightly more difficult with the plugs in. But, I can turn it with the fan. It doesn't need a breaker bar. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Adam

Instead of choking it, make sure the choke is wide open. See what happens then. If you're getting too much gas, more air (less choke) will help. You're not getting any popping or white smoke now?

Your engine is not too tight. Are you trying to start it with jumper cables because that just doesn't cut it. You need good cables in place because you can't afford much of a voltage drop in a six volt system.

I wouldn't be putting my hand on top of the carb when trying to start it. If it backfires you could get badly burned. Normally you can open the throttle some, close the choke and let the throttle return and it will stay closed until you work the throttle. Another approach is to leave the choke for the moment, dump a few ounces of gas in the carb and then try it.

You can also give it a better spark by disconnecting the coil from the supply and powering it with a battery charger. This way the supply to the coil doesn't get affected by the heavy demand on the voltage when the starter is cranking.

Adam:
I don't remember your previous thread, but you might check your points again, it sounds like everything else is probably close enough to at least start it. In regards to being "too tight," did you prime the oil pump before trying to start the engine?

I've tried it choked and wide open and the throttle is open (not throttled). There is no more popping, white smoke, or backfires through the carb. It is puttering out the exhaust. I have a 600 cca amps 12v battery and plenty of gas getting to the carburetor. I will try running the coil off the battery charger. Any more tips? Should I try a battery with more cca? The engine does have a tight spot when I turn it by hand. Could that have anything to do with it? It's almost there...

Adam

If it's a 6V system, you may have fried the coil and or other ignition parts with the 12V battery. Your first post wanting a local stovebolter was a good idea, too bad it didn't work out that way.

I'm running a 12v system. And I primed the oil lines too...

Is it static timed for UDC? You do this by setting the motor to UDC and then wih a meter, rotate the distributor back and forth until the points are just opening. Tighten the distributor and you are good to go for the first run up.

Could you explain how to static time more thoroughly or send me a link. I am new at all this. Thank you.

Adam

gatsby, to set the points, turn the motor over manually until the part of the points that rubs against the cam (that's the six-pointed part in the center) is riding on the high point of the cam. At that position the points should be wide open. With the points in that position, adjust the gap in the points until it's around .019. That's all you need to do to set the points. If you're not sure how to adjust them, read this article that includes pictures. In the picture of the points, you can clearly see the point wiper sitting on the high spot of the cam, as well as the screws that hold the points in place. You loosen the screw closest to the contacts and move the base of the points assembly toward or away from the contacts until the gap is .019. If you don't have a feeler gauge, use a match book cover. (Old timer's trick.)

Once the point gap is set, you still need to set the timing on the engine in some manner to get it running. After it is running you can set it with a timing light. So initially, here is what I suggest:

Turn the engine over by hand until the pointer is at the little triangle, usually labeled as UDC or Upper dead Centre. Now loosen the distributor clamp and with an ohm meter, find the point where the points are just about to open as you rotate the distributor base. Snug sown the clamp and give the motor a try. Sometimes if the motor is almost catching, it can be helpful to try small adjustments of the timing by rotating the distributor a small amount, but I wouldn't suggest that you do that at this time.

I'll set the gaps and give the static timing a shot. Thanks again, guys. I'll let you know what happens. Cross your fingers.

Adam

OK, don't make us wait forever! Did you get it running????

I'm going to give it another shot tomorrow afternoon. I'll let you know the minute it roars to life (hopefully). I think this time will be the one!

Adam

Did you say in an earlier post that you have fuel pooling in the manifold? Or did I imagnie that?

At 17 I did the hand choke thing as taught by elders. Bad burns.

baldeagle, matchbook? Man its been a long time sisnce I've heard that. All these newfangled ignitions.

I've done a ton of carburetors over the years. The only time I ever had to deal with a fire was when I had the top off a Quadrajet and some jerk cranked the engine. A couple of rags put the fire out. Never once got burned hand choking a carb, but I'm sure it could happen. And yeah, matchbooks were a handy way to set the points in an emergency.

In starting our 235 my brother came very close to getting burnt by putting his hand on the carb. It backfired and heated his hand enough to cause him to jump pretty high.

Not as high as when we discovered our muffler may plugged by a mouse nest and decided to cut it out with a cutoff wheel...turns out there was a bunch of risidual gas in the exhaust that ignited and KABOOM! It send him flying but yet again, no serious injuries.

Sorry for the long wait, guys. I am preparing to go back to school and I haven't had time for the truck. It looks like I'm going to have to wait another semester until I can drive her. Breaks my heart. I will update everyone on the engine in about a week or so. Thanks again for all your help!

Adam